"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Greg Esres" wrote in message
...

OLV Loc 18.

It's been replaced now by an ILS, so it's no longer an issue.

The approach started at the FAF. No intermediate or initial segment.


You misunderstood that approach. I have a US Terminal Procedures book SC-4
dated 26 Feb 1998, I scanned and posted a copy of this procedure to
alt.binaries.pictures.aviation so you can review it. ATC cleared you to
2500 until established on the localizer because that's the MVA in that area.
Once you were cleared for the approach and had joined the localizer you were
to descend in accordance with FAR 91.175(i) to the 2000 minimum altitude
until MANDD, upon reaching MANDD you descend to the MDA, 800 feet. See the
profile view.

Not so, Steve. The 2,000' shown on that 1998 chart is evaluated by the
procedures specialist only at the FAF, including any fix displacement factors.
If the MVA were 2,500, then the airspace below 2,500 until reaching the fix
displacement area for MANDD would be "TWA 514-land." Further, you cannot be
established on the LOC in that procedure prior to MANDD, in the context that
"established" when issued by ATC, means established in a published segment of
the approach.in accordance with FAR 91.175(i) and related AIM/7110.65 guidance.

Further, because controllers were misapplying the long-standing requirements of
the 7110.65 to NOT use the word "established" when vectoring an aircraft to an
unpublished extension of a published segment of an IAP, Air Traffic Bulletin
2001-04 was issued to provide clarification of *existing* air traffic policy.
The link and bulletin title follow:

http://www2.faa.gov/ATpubs/atbarc/01-4.htm

"Vectors to Final Approach Course Prior to Published Segment of an Instrument
Approach Procedure (IAP)"

The correct clearance in 1998 for that approach would be, "Intercept the
localizer, cross MANDD at 2,500, then cleared for the LOC/DME 18 approach."

And, this approach, and many other "Radar Required" IAPs without an intermediate
segment, not only resulted in confusion, but could also force the aircraft to
maintain MVA to the FAF, which in some cases (like this one) was higher than a
TERPsed intermediate segment would apply.

ALPA complained about this lack of intermediate segments in 1998, or so, and
over 100 such IAPs were identified and scheduled for correction. Most of them
have since been corrected. AVN-100 has a worksheet, which they present at the
Aeronautical Charting Forum each 6 months to show the progess on the repair of
these "intermediateless" IAPs.

How you read 91.175(i) to permit the pilot to depart MVA and descend to 2,000'
prior to MANDD escapes me. That is pretty much what the crew of TWA 514 did,
and which resulted in 91.175(i) being written; i.e., *published* route or
segment.