"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
I know that when I was receiving training, my instructor once had me
bring 2 male adults with me to a lesson. That put 4 male adults in a 172
with full fuel. I don't recall the specific weight we were at, but we
were over weight. The airport we flying out of had 8000' of runway, and
my instructor had me doing pattern work. The aircraft was very clumsy,
and made me really work at flying it. I didn't like that feeling at all!
It was a good training day.

Your instructor was (maybe still is) a moron.

I tend to agree with you and Bob on this. Said instructor is no longer with
us. Here is the final report text from the NTSB:

AIRCRAFT 1 PRELIMINARY REPORT

On August 17, 2004, about 2340 mountain daylight time, a Beechcraft 99
Airliner, N199GL, operated as Alpine flight 5071, was destroyed during a
collision with mountainous terrain approximately six nautical miles
northeast of Neihart, Montana, near the summit of Big Baldy Mountain. The
aircraft was operated by Alpine Aviation, Inc, dba Alpine Air, of Provo,
Utah, as a visual flight rules (VFR) non-scheduled domestic air cargo flight
under the provisions of Title 14, CFR Part 135, when the accident occurred.
The airline transport pilot-in-command and pilot rated passenger received
fatal injuries. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and a company
VFR flight plan was filed. The flight originated from Billings, Montana, at
2305. The flight planned destination was Kalispell, Montana (FCA). On the
evening of August 17, Salt lake Center issued an Alert Notice (ALNOT) after
radio and radar contact with the accident aircraft was lost. The following
day, about 1145 local, the aircraft wreckage was located approximately 175
feet below the summit of Big Baldy Mountain.


The "pilot rated passenger" was a friend of mine, who likely was flying the
aircraft. This gentlemen was a long time pilot, whom I took some flight
lessons from. I didn't finish with him, and I am glad I didn't. However, I
did learn things from him, one way or another....



Anyway, it was a good discussion between a few of us at work, so I thought
it might make a good topic here.

Why?

Because discussion is a great way to bring up questions, answers, things you
may not have considered before. I believe there is a heck of a lot of
knowledge out there, but the only way to get to much of it is to ask
questions, start discussions. I think to ask why to my remark is silly. Do
you ever discuss anything with your friends or co-workers? Do you ever
discuss things among other pilots? That is why...


I would only knowingly fly an airplane over gross in an emergency
situation. Most airplanes are probably fine a few percent over gross, but
you may well be exploring unknown territory if you fly over gross.


Matt

I agree with you, and there have been alot of things brought up in this
thread that have given me more information as to why. Sometimes "because
you were told not too" isn't good enough if you know what I mean.

Fred