"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

OK, seems like reporting that I am OTP is part of the puzzle.


Depends on the situation. If you're cruising along on an IFR clearance and
request VFR-on-top the controller can simply clear you to maintain
VFR-on-top. It's assumed the conditions permit you to comply with the
clearance or you wouldn't have made the request. Once you've been cleared
to maintain "VFR-on-top," you are responsible to fly at an appropriate VFR
altitude, comply with VFR visibility and cloud clearance criteria, and
to be vigilant so as to see and avoid other aircraft. You're still
responsible to comply with instrument flight rules applicable to your
flight, such as adherence to ATC clearances. ATC will no longer provide
standard IFR separation, but will continue to provide traffic advisories.

Climbing through clouds in order to maintain VFR-on-top is another matter.
In that case ATC must provide standard IFR separation until you reach VFR
conditions and are cleared to maintain VFR-on-top. The controller won't
know those conditions exist until you report reaching them.



A few days
ago, I had requested 125/OTP. I intended to fly at 12500 while VFR On
Top, so I requested that. The controller seemed a little uncertain, said
he didn't have any tops reports. Finally he cleared me to "Climb to and
report reaching 12000, maintain VFR-on-top at 12000. If not on top at
12000 maintain 12 thousand and advise." It seemed wierd, but I decided to
climb on up and clear it up at altitude.


Bad phraseology. Assuming he had traffic at 13,000, the clearance should
have been; "Climb to and report reaching VFR-on-top, no tops reports. If
not on top at one two thousand maintain one two thousand and advise."



So I climbed to 12000 and
reported "VFR On Top at 12000". Then he told me to "Maintain VFR On Top
at 12000", as I recall, it might have been "at or below 12000".


Bad clearance. You can't maintain VFR-on-top at 12,000, VFR-on-top requires
flight at appropriate VFR cruise altitudes and 12,000 ain't one of 'em. The
controller shouldn't be instructing you to maintain any specific altitude at
all, even if it is a proper VFR altitude. If there is special use airspace
in use on your route, the controller must instruct you to operate at least
500 feet above the upper limit or 500 feet below the lower limit of the
airspace. Example, "Maintain VFR-on-top at least 500 feet below one three
thousand across Johnson East MOA between Smith and Jones VORs."



So I
asked him if I shouldn't be up at 12500, he stammered a bit, said stand
by, then came back and said to "Maintain VFR On Top at 12500 (might have
been 12500 or below, it has gotten fuzzy now)".


Still a bad clearance, should be just "Maintain VFR-on-top." You're
encountering controllers that are not very familiar with VFR-on-top.



It was a bit of a circus
the rest of the way on handoffs. One controller told me "For further
advisories contact XXX Center on YYY.ZZ", which I had not heard before
while on an IFR flight plan.


Should be just "Contact XXX Center on YYY.ZZ".



Then another controller wouldn't let me descend in time (while I was still
VFR On Top), I wound up cancelling IFR and circling down to the airport.


As long as you maintain VFR conditions he can't stop you from descending,
assuming you're not in airspace where ATC provides separation to VFR
aircraft and SUA is not a factor. To descend below the minimum IFR altitude
you'll have to either cancel IFR or be cleared for an approach of some kind.

Depending on where you're going the controller may have to assign a specific
IFR altitude. For example, let's say your destination is within approach
control delegated airspace where IFR aircraft on your route are assigned
eight thousand feet. You're still an IFR aircraft while operating
VFR-on-top so at some point the controller will instruct you descend and
maintain eight thousand or to cross a certain fix at eight thousand. Your
options are to comply or cancel IFR.



From your post, I learn that I should report OTP as soon as I am OTP and
can remain so, even if I have not reached the "report reaching" altitude.
Then I should be cleared to just Maintain VFR On Top, and I can continue
to climb to my desired altitude. Is that right?


That's right.



It's been too long to remember the details, but once I left our local
airport in Class C and the controller would not clear me for OTP, or gave
me OTP below 10000, can't remember now. His reason had something to do
with he didn't own the airspace above 10000. Does that mean the
controller must restrict my clearance to something that will cause me to
be contained within his airspace?


If the upper limit of his airspace is ten thousand an appropriate clearance
would be, "Climb to and report reaching VFR-on-top, no tops reports. If
not on top at one zero thousand maintain one zero thousand and advise."
Remember, you're treated the same as any other IFR departure until you
report reaching VFR conditions and are cleared to maintain VFR-on-top. If
your requested altitude had been 14,000 the departure controller would have
cleared you to 10,000 and told you to contact center while you were still
climbing to ten thousand. You'd contact center and he'd climb you to
fourteen thousand. It works the same way if your requested altitude is
VFR-on-top and you haven't reached VFR conditions by ten thousand, you'd
have to get a higher altitude from center.