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  #10  
Old July 18th 05, 10:37 PM
Roy Smith
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John Clonts wrote:
"expect holding at XXXXX, the next sector is not taking your handoff".
Then before I get to XXXXX the handoff gets accepted.


Now that sounds a lot more reasonable for ATC service.


Yes, I agree. And it also suggests that in the original scenario, a
good tack might be along these lines:

ZXX Center: N1234, Potomac Approach is refusing to handle you, say
intentions.

N1234: ZXX Center, If you'd like to offer me an amended clearance or
holding instructions, I'd be happy to consider them, N1234, over.


What possible good comes from this? He's asked you what you would
like to do, within the constraints of what he's already told you he's
unable to give you. How could the controller possibly know what makes
sense for you to do at that point? Are you the PIC, or are you just
along for the ride?

Something like, "I need to stay south of Camp David to avoid
convective activity north of there. If Potomac won't take me, can you
work me on vectors around the south edge of P-whatever-it-is?". At
least that gives the controller something to decide if he can approve
or not.

Another constructive alternative, "If I hold at Hagarstown, how long
would I expect until Potomac can work me?"

Or, "Would it help if I climbed to xxx?"

Or, here's another one, that's perhaps a little more devious. "If I
changed my destination to Fredrick, could Potomac at least take me
that far?" If the controller says "yes", once you get handed off to
Potomac, you can try wheedling *that* guy for a clearance to York. It
may be gaming the system a bit, but sometimes it works. Sometimes it
doesn't and you might end up having to land at Fredrick, but that's
probably no worse than landing back at Hagarstown.

Any of these alternatives seem better than asking the controller to
try and read your mind.