Newps wrote:

wrote:


Newps wrote:


Greg Esres wrote:


Tower guys don't give headings, they give vectors

Nonsense. Vectors require radar contact, and lots of towers aren't
associated at all with any radar facility.

Vectors do not require radar contact when issued with your takeoff
clearance. There are rules as to how soon after you takeoff that you
must be seen on the radar, otherwise the controller cannot vector you.
The tower itself does not have to have radar to give you a vector. If
the approach control can see aircraft within a half a mile after takeoff
they may have the tower give you a vector.


That is a contradiction in terms. If the tower controller can't see you on
radar he cannot vector you. He can only assign a heading.

If there is no radar in the tower the approach control will assign the
vector. If you get a heading in your takeoff clearance it is a vector.
Period.

That happened to me personally at KMRY a few years ago, taking off to the east
towards the rapidly rising mountains. I had filed the MRY 3 vector SID, which
required a turn to a heading of 315, or so, to fly away from the terrain and over
the ocean.

I was assigned the heading by the tower just after takeoff. I replied, "Is this
for vectors?" Silence. I then said, "I cannot achieve a climb gradient to climb
straight out. Silence. I then said, "I am turning left to a heading of 315 to
follow my filed departure." Then, there were some "ahhs and errrs" and I was
handed off to departure control.

I later learned that the TRACON cannot see you on an east departure until you're
about 1,100 feet, agl, due to the fact the antenna is located several miles away
so it can serve KSNS as well.

I was well aware that the Runway 10 non-radar SID had a climb gradient of 400
feet per mile for almost 4500 feet.