On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 03:04:23 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

IMHO, if this proposed definition is approved, VFR pilots really WILL
be restricted from flying in ANY visible moisture, regardless of size
or opacity.

We already are. You've just been violating the restriction, that's all.

If you're right, George, it's our right -- no, our duty -- to get stupid
rules changed.

Hi Jay,

While I can understand the battle you are undertaking, please look at my
original post that you did not address in your reply to my original post.

From that post is below:

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with others. The cloud clearance
rules and regs are designed to protect the IFR pilot.

If I am GPS direct off route from point A and point B and plodding along in
and out of clouds, the last thing I would want is an unpleasant surprise
coming out of a cloud.

Mind you, center "may" give me a traffic advisory saying 43L, traffic 12:00
3 miles ahead, 3500 unverified. If either of our altitudes are off, it
will make for an unpleasant meeting.

Traffic is already hard enough to spot on severe clear days. Having my
head inside the cockpit and popping out of a cloud won't give me time to
see you much less avoid you if center doesn't / didn't give me an advisory.

While the big sky theory works, I wouldn't want to fully depend on it.

Note the first paragraph. The rules are to protect the IFR folks. The
rules as I see it are not stupid.

Yes, you may have a yugo size cloud that you are circling, but when I am
plodding along maintaining strict headings and altitudes, when I enter that
yugo size cloud, I expect a clear path on the other side, not parts of a
plane within that cloud. Nor should I have to worried about taking evasive
actions around that cloud.

I stand to be corrected, but if I remember correctly, you stated in your
ORIGINAL post you were at 4000 feet circling the cloud, which is an IFR
cruise altitude. And if you were not, I would be betting your eyes were
outside the cockpit and you were not at VFR cruise altitude which would
potentially reduce the 500 foot vertical separation.

Remember, while I am to see and avoid while in VFR conditions PRIOR to
entering that yugo size cloud, entering that cloud on an IFR flight, all
bets are off. My eyes are no longer outside the cockpit. Nor can I see
through yugo size clouds.

Why would you want to chance an IFR flight popping out of that yugo size
cloud?

So, in a nutshell, while that cloud may be innocent enough to a VFR pilot,
it's not so innocent to the IFR pilot that is allowed to enter that cloud.
You, now become a serious hazard to that IFR pilot.

Not sure if you monitor the rec.student newsgroup, but I posted my IFR
experiences today, and there was a VFR pilot in conditions that at best
were marginal for VFR flying.

I sure hope Mary and your standards are higher then that pilot.

Allen