Happy Dog wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in

Maybe not for you, but for me I'll take accident avoidance over an
accident in the most crashworthy vehicle made.


Hit anything going really fast?

Nothing over 30 MPH, but much above 40 and you are toast no matter what
you drive.


Wrong. Now how about something hitting you?

I've so far avoided the incompetent drivers around me both in my cars
and on my motorcycles. Riding a motorcycle tends to make one a very
alert operator.



Really believe that a BMW X5 is significantly less able to keep you out
of an accident than a Mini?

Yes, and the BMW is probably the best handling SUV on the market. Compare
a more typical SUV such as an Expedition or Tahoe and the difference witht
he mini is even more dramatic.


Certainly. But the question is whether the difference is enough to make up
for the significant crashworthiness difference.

I only have to avoid one crash to make up the difference. You are
basing your argument on the underlying assumption that a crash is
inevitable. I don't accept that premise.


Wanna bet your kids?

Yes, I'd much rather have my kids in no accident than in a 50 MPH accident
in an SUV.


You might wish to live forever, but that, and your response, are irrelevant.
You *do* have a choice between an X5 and a Mini though. Which is it and
why? You might be a supremely gifted driver and able to avoid most
collisions. Most people aren't *and never will be no matter how much they
try*. FWIW, when I was a poor aspiring racer, many years ago, I used to
trade track time for instruction. The worst crash I have ever been in was
with a student driver. They hit the gas instead of locking up the brakes.
Think cruising at 60 MPH, turning as hard as you can into the guardrail
(from the left lane) and standing on the throttle. We walked away. My
experience, and association with many other instructors confirms, that, like
most human endeavours, only a small percentage are prodigies. And, to
acheive the level of skill required to drive around a potential accident
nearly every time, requires too much more than good intentions and a bit of
training.

It is inevitable that I will die. It is not inevitable that I will be
in an automobile crash. The only wreck I've had was a single vehicle
accident in a VW Beetle where I lost control in heavy snow. I was 17
years old and haven't had an accident since then and that was nearly 30
years ago.

Well, I've succeeded for 30 years. I also ride motorcycles, so for me
any car is a big step up in crashworthiness, but a step down in crash
avoidance. Trying to sell me an SUV for crashworthiness reasons is a
lost cause.

Also, you increase the chance of an accident due to roll-over. The last
statistics I saw showed that SUVs were LESS safe then cars, so your
argument simply doesn't hold in the real world.


I've seen so many near misses that were unavoidable with any amount of
skill. Shot happens. And you're more likely to survive it in a larger
(crashworthy) vehicle. The car in the accident mentioned above was a BMW 3
series "Bauer". Was. A lovely, and rare, 3 series targa. The guy had told
his wife he was going golfing...

You are again equating size with crashworthiness and this simply isn't
correct based on the statistics to date.


Given a hundred years to live, and drive, which ride will yield more
survivors?

I'm betting on the mini. Compare the death and accident rates for SUVs
against cars. Cars are already better.


Stats?

Do some research. The last stats I saw were in Consumer Reports, but I
believe they came from NHTSA.


Matt