"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
On 2005-10-12, Matt Barrow wrote:
refineries have been expanded (hence the 40% increase in production), but
how much is it feasible to keep running old technology? Old technology is
much less environmentally friendly? Remember, too, that these were built
using 1970s technology. How old is your computer?

Are the refineries really using old technology? New ones might not have
been built but old ones may have been upgraded with newer technology
(possibly how they have output increased per refinery).

They were originally built with old technology in place, but I can't imagine
they been completely retooled.


The guts of my computer are just under 3 years old. However, trivial
parts (case, CD-ROM drive, monitor, keyboard) are over twice this age.

How much could you upgrade a 16bit processor with a 64bit one given the
different data bus?

Is it not possible that refineries haven't undergone refits like my
computer has - so the ironwork might be from the 1970s, but the guts are
much newer?

Some machinery in any case is built to last. Railway locomotives, ships,
airliners,

Here's an example: the Boeing 737-100 engines compared to the powerplants on
the -300 and later series.
I figure that would be the appropriae analogy. Also, the comparison I used
with a 1970's automobile engine with current technology. You could
completely replace the engine, but the drivetrain would not be really
compatible.

power stations, telephone exchanges etc. are often built to
have a nominal life span of over 30 years. I would expect the same to be
true of a refinery.

Their servicability might be 30 years, but imagine a telephone exchange with
the old switching technology (mechanical). Or another analogy would be the
old copper wire being replaced with fibre optic.

There's a point when you just have to chuck the old stuff an build anew.
That's probably why the numbers have gone from 362 to 149.


Remember, too, that many of these were built using 1970s technology. How
old
is your computer?

You make that comparison again, but I don't think it's valid - Moore's
Law (really observation) which drives the computer market is really an
exception rather than the norm.

It's an analogy, not an example. Use my analogy of automobile engines as
another.

In any case as we're starting to run
into physical limits right now (and generally, desktop computers remain
useful for longer - for the typical office job - an 833MHz Pentium 3
computer made 6 years ago is still more than adequate, but using a 6
year old computer 6 years ago was often very painful).

For a desktop computer, sure. Now imagine running your servers with old
technology, especially with an increased load.

The company I worked for coming out of college in 1982 (MS program) was
running IBM 370's, then 3083's. The computer room was about 30'x24' . When I
left in 1998, they were running HP servers in one small corner of that room.
They replaced the old coax cables with FO cables.

In sum, there's probably much that can be upgraded in existing refineries,
but there are limits.At a certain point you meet the point of diminishing
returns. A further question is: how much regulation comes into play when
re-tooling or expanding a refinery?