On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 23:01:05 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
If the TRACON is issuing radar vectors off the ground, then, as I quoted
from the AIM, that would supersede any ODP. But ATC is then responsible
for obstacle clearance, of course.

How can they issue radar vectors before you're in radar contact?

This has come up before. If SMO is Class E surface area when the tower is
closed (and it probably is), then the heading to fly after takeoff can be
specified by ATC. Maybe there is a DVA. "After takeoff", of course,
refers to leaving 400' AGL on runway heading.

In previous discussions, there has been some confusion as to how the pilot
knows that the vector should be considered a "radar vector" and I don't
think there's been a real clear-cut answer. Certainly happens at big city
airports; and it wouldn't surprise me if that was in effect at SMO in the
shadow of LAX.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)