At 00:06 25 November 2005, Mark Newton wrote:


Hmm...

In article ,
Don Johnstone
wrote:

I agree that with the right glider, a competent and
experienced pilot it might not be a problem and then
again such a pilot would not need the warning in the
first place. It is never one single factor that results
in a mishap and the whole point of my argument is
that
while everyone who has responded to this thread may
be able to cope, because they have the experience
and,
more importantly, have thought about it, there are
those who, though no fault of their own, would not,
and have not.

We can actually apply that principle to virtually any

skill involved in aviation.

Landing, for example. Or use of the rudder. Or spin
recovery. Or outlanding. You name it, if it has anything
to do with aviation the principles above apply. We
all
know how to do it safely, but some don't through no
fault of
their own.

Now: In all aspects of aviation *except wheels-up
landings*,
when we say, 'while everyone who has responded to this
thread
may be able to cope, because they have the experience
and,
more importantly, have thought about it, there are
those
who, thorugh no fault of their own, would not, and
have not,'
we respond to that with training and with systems of

redundant backup (e.g., checklists).

We take as many opportunities as possible to tilt the
hazardous landscape in the pilot's favour so that,
at the
end of the day, he *can* cope, and becomes one of those
people
with the experience who have thought about it.

Yet, when it comes to wheels-up landings, people kinda

shrug their shoulders and say, 'Oh well.' I've even
heard
people say, 'There are two types of glider pilots:
those
who have landed with the wheel up, and those who will.'
There's this ridiculous acceptance that this particular
type
of accident is perfectly ok -- And not only is it ok,
but
that we ought to resist warning devices which can prevent
it,
and not invest in the training required to enable pilots
to
safely react to the warning devices when they go off!

That attitude is insane. We don't accept it anywhere
else
in aviation. And no other aviation disciplines accept
it
either (try it out: Turn up to your local airport,
say, 'There
are two types of pilots, those who have landed with
the wheels
up and those who will,' and then try to hire a retractable-
undercarriage light plane)


Your own glider, up to you, a club glider
we have to consider the lowest common denominator.
The very fact that this is being discussed as it is,
will increase the chances of those contributing and
reading it making the right decision if it ever happens.


I'm more concerned about the thronging multitudes who
haven't
seen this thread, who have been brought up in an environment
that says belly-landings are kinda-sorta-acceptable,
in a
culture which has resisted the use of cheap and simple
accident-prevention warning devices.

What would this thread have looked like if the BGA
had
released a position paper which said that collision
warning
devices were discouraged because pilots should be looking
out, and if they're not looking out the last thing
we want
to do is surprise them and distract them in the high-stress
environment they get when another glider is in the
final
moments of a collision course?

- mark


People die in collisions.

Nobody ever died simply by landing a glider wheel-up
on a runway but many have from approach control failures.