Steve's a big boy and doesn't need me or anyone else defending him. I
find that when I finally read what he meant it is very plain. I think my
problem is that I don't understand his original premise as precisely as
does he. I'm sure he is very precise and accurate in-the-moment, which
is really the only time he'd be giving direction anyway. So all is well
in the great wild blue yonder...

Regarding the enroute hold, I've only had to do them during training or
check rides, or at Portland, Or in the '70s while they were down to only
one runway. They were the GA and AC airport so you either flew your
approaches at the 727 speeds or you got to hold enroute until you agreed
to fly your approaches at 727 speeds. It was a wonderful environment in
which to train students right at the end of their study for their
instrument or II ticket. Ah, the good ol' days...



-----Original Message-----
From: A Lieberman ]
Posted At: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:33 PM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Newbie holding questions
Subject: Newbie holding questions

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 03:45:01 GMT, Jim Carter wrote:

Okay Steve, I didn't realize until just now that you are only
talking
about enroute holds. I was applying your comments to all types of
holds.
Will you agree that a hold at an initial approach fix will always
include and EFC time?

I am like you Jim, seems that Steve is not very clear in what he says.

Though to be honest, I always thought a hold, is a hold is a hold, if
I am
told to hold at ABC VOR enroute, I will be expecting an EFC to leave
ABC
VOR to proceed on to to my destination, paper stop or not as he
describes.

Are there special procedures for an enroute holds? Am I not expected
to
fly a racetrack pattern around the fix I am instructed to hold at?

Like others said, it would be more appropriate to put a speed
restriction
rather then hold, but Steve insists that I won't be flying in circles
when
I am asked to hold.

When I got my one and only reroute, I was routed to a VOR, and I
didn't
even think of asking for a EFC since I figured there was no delay as I
was
being re-routed around a MOA.

With the vague way Steve writes in this newsgroup, kinda makes me
nervous
if I had to ever fly through his sector if he is an ATC controller.

Allen