On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:49:50 GMT, Greg Esres wrote:

I think my approach would be to emphasize to the student the
importance of situational awareness in all instances, and the
attitude that he is the one flying and responsible...I think students
(and advanced pilots) sometimes fall into the trap of
allowing/expecting too much hand-holding from ATC.

I agree with all you said.

I've been aware of this problem with ATC for a while and use it to
illustrate to students how important it is for THEM to be in charge.

I was just curious as to 1) how often others had noticed this, and 2)
who was using this information in order to descend to intermediate
altitudes.


I cannot recall ever hearing ATC give me a "distance from" an incorrect fix
during an approach clearance. 90% of my flying is in the NE receiving
radar services.

Also, my recollection (and I could be wrong here), is that during the times
I get a "maintain ....ft until established" clearance, it's for a precision
approach. For non-precision approaches, I've received a "maintain ...ft
until crossing xyz"


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)