lift, wings, and Bernuolli
You are looking here at the basic question of how does the
starting vortex form.
No, I'm also looking at how it is maintained.
You have staked out the position
that a ground is required for the vortex to form.
No, I've staked out a position that the ground is required for there to
be no net momentum change. The ground is ultimately what the air (given
downward momentum) bounces against, either for real or by proxy.
Granted this is not what provides lift, but it does provide the ultimate
support when the wheels themselves leave the ground.
Do we agree or disagree that the "wave" i.e.
starting vortex, however it got started can continue in the
absence of the ground?
We agree. I do not see however how it can continue in the absence of
energy, and I still maintain that in order to cancel out mv^2/2 of the
wing (which otherwise would be falling), there has to be (locally) an
equal mv^2/2 which the air acquires, and spreads out over the surface of
the earth (where it bounces off, keeping the earth away). Like a
dribbler who supports himself by dribbling, there is lots of momentum
transfer (to the ball, back and forth), which, while it nets to zero,
only does so because of the earth. IF there were no earth, the ball
would never bounce back.
That is not the same as what you seem to think I am maintaining:
that without a ground an infinite
wing would require a constant input of infinite energy to
accelerate the air and give it momentum (and kinetic energy)
for the uncanceled downwash.
Jose
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