"JD" wrote in message
news:NksOf.78994$bF.6999@dukeread07...
John (and Red Rider)

I knew Cunningham since the mid 70's. Fact, Cunningham was on the RIF
list until he became an ace. Had he not become an ace that day, he would
have been passed over and released from the Navy.

Ditto, met him at the Miramar O'club before Connie departed on her cruise.
It's true he was not invited to augment to regular navy prior to his
success.

I never saw him once that he was not sitting in a bar (O Club) letting
everyone one within hearing distance know that he was the greatest pilot
the Navy had in his time.

I flew against him 4 times at Top Gun and had 4 kills.

As a student in F-4? F-14? 1 v 1? Multiplane? Or were you instructing
(don't remember you, but I don't remember a lot of guys there). In any
case, so what? Nobody said he was the best, or even really really good
(Personally, I thought his wingman, Brian Grant, was the better stick ...
that's from significant first hand experience).

I have to disagree with in part (John) about him being the most prepared.
I would say he WAS prepared having gone through TopGun but there were more
than several handfuls of Navy drivers who would have come out of the fray
Cunningham was in as Aces. Luck of the draw.

Most of them would not have made it their life's mission to live off that
reputation. Willie (Driscoll) was quoted as saying on more than one
occasion that they were in the right place at the right time. As far Col
Toon, it has been proven that Toon was not involved in Cunningham's shoot
downs.

He was a grad of topgun as it existed in the era, certainly helped. He also
would sit in the cockpit during alert fives running switchology drills,
quizzing Willie on missile envelopes, etc. Most guys slept or read Playboy.
He also saw more Migs in one day than several air wings saw for an entire
war. Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. The Col Toon
thing was almost certainly an invention of Navy PAO. Whoever Duke
encountered for his last fight of the day was better than you average M-17
driver.

Later in his Navy career, Cunningham became an egotistical drunk who would
berate anyone who disagreed with him.

Certainly to a degree. And he also sobered up and got his act together.
Obviously not well enough.

I can not honestly say I would have accomplished what he did that day, but
given the same situation and being well trained for it, I would like to
think I would.

As do we all. And you, like me, will never REALLY know.

Much of the above is my personal assessment but there are also facts
presented.

VR
Jake

"John Carrier" wrote in message
...

"Red Rider" wrote in message
...

I have know the guy for over 36 years. I won't say we are good friends,
but
whenever we saw each other we said hello. His Naval career was just
so-so,
not brilliant but not a disaster either. He probably wouldn't have
stayed
around the Navy if he hadn't been an ace.

And that was part of the problem, and has always been. He went through
all
the training learning to fly, learning his profession as a fighter
pilot,
with everybody telling him how good he was. Telling how special he was
to
succeed when so many failed to make the grade. Then he reached the
panicle
of success and became an ace, which proved it to him. Somewhere along
the
line he began to believe his own legend. Then he is elected to congress,
everything just fell into place for him with little failure. (I guess
his
only real setback was the failure of his first marriage). How can you
blame
him for believing the BS that everybody fed him. It would take a special
person to maintain a balance with a life like this.

I rejoiced in his success, and I am saddened by his failure. He just
proved
that like many of us he has feet of clay.

Good post! Duke was a solid pilot, the most PREPARED pilot in theater,
and he was presented with opportunities which he capitalized on.
Officerlike qualities? Well, he wasn't the dullest tool in the shed.

The power corrupts comments earlier hit it right on. We throw 535 human
beings into the candy store, tell 'em the owner is blind, and watch. His
corruption is on the grandest scale yet discovered, but how many of them
have been influenced by lesser things? The whole K-street Congress axis
is a detriment to our well-being, and we've got the budget to prove it.
The SOB's have discovered they can bribe us with our own money.

R / John