On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:47:22 GMT, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

"tomcervo" wrote:

:Sounds like the Tornado tactic, fire and run. Dogfighting is great in
:the movies but I doubt it's as cost effective as BVR

However, setting your airplane up for BVR only relies on some very
crucial assumptions that, in time of war, are probably not going to be
upheld.

I think the original post indicated BVR "preferred" not exclusive.
Bringing up the old Vietnam-era issue of gun-less Phantoms is
increasingly irrelevant. Technology has made BVR discrimination much
more positive and that means future conflict ROE is much more likely
to be supportive of BVR.

You have to convince the other guy to play your game and be detectable
at good BVR ranges so you can shoot him. He's probably going to avoid
this, particularly if he knows that getting to 'knife-fighting' range
means he gets an automatic win.

There's seldom any such thing as an "automatic" win in a knife-fight.
Closing to WVR is one thing, but slowing down to the turn-n-burn
engagement mode is avoidable in most situations. Maintaining mutual
support and high energy state is the best way to become "old" and with
modern weapons also offers a high probability of adding "bold" as
well.

It only works once the hot war starts. If you are in a 'patrol'
situation where the other guy can get arbitrarily close to you before
the balloon goes up, you are going to lose an awful lot of aircraft in
the first real exchange of fire.

Hard to imagine a scenario in which "patrol" doesn't involve
over-watch by a big brother platform as well as data fusion from a
number of sources--all of which mitigates against the closeness
factor.

It assumes the other guy doesn't fly an LO platform, that he can't jam
or evade your missiles, etc.

Critical in all of this discussion is role and mission. If the SHAR is
going to be a fleet air defender, then he's going to have a lot of
info available and a very good chance of salvoing against the inbound
threats while they are still BVR. If the SHAR is envisioned as
escorting ground attackers, then the probability of less info
increases as well as closing to tighter ranges.

Personally, I like the F-22 concept of air dominance a whole lot
better with LO, sensor fusion and still a highly agile platform in the
package. SHAR is the "make do with what we can afford" approach to air
superiority.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com