On Thu, 25 May 2006 13:51:01 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

In a previous article, "Denny" said:
"OK, it's filed... Hayuv a nice day.", she chirped...
Slight pause on my part (the deer in the headlights look, my son, DL,
later dryly mentioned) as I was well into the role of mentor and
smoothly showing my son how it is done by a pro I thought ....
"Uhhh, I didn't get a squawk."
"Oh, I can't give you a squawk, ATC will assign that when you open your
flight plan."

Most of this story seems to indicate that you expect a VFR flight plan to
work exactly the same as an IFR flight plan. It never has, and post 9/11
it's been even worse for cross border operations.

Oh, but they used to and not all that long ago, at least in my
experience. Now maybe it was just the areas in which I've been flying.

I'd file VFR say from 3BS to Muncie. I'd contact MBS approach,
sometimes they'd activate the flight plane for me and some times I'd
have to call FSS. On landing I'd tell the tower I'd like to close the
flight plan. Some times they would and some times they'd tell me to
call FSS. I think it just depended on how busy they were. They'd
hand me off to the next sector (Lansing) and so on. It was not
uncommon to end up talking to center as well. The handoffs were
exactly like the ones I receive IFR. The only difference was I only
needed to notify them when changing altitude and direction instead of
having them tell me when to do so.. However I usually put it in the
form of "Eight Thirty Three Romeo needs to start down for Muncie, or
would like to turn heading such and such. More often than not I'd
hear the word "approved".

No, there were no clearances and not as many instructions, nor did I
have to except a bunch of instructions at the outer marker. :-))
In particular I didn't have to expect odd routing around busy
airspace. But until recently I found very little difference in
talking to ATC whether IFR or VFR.

Actually I did receive directions one time. I was talking to Ft Wayne
app coming from the north and headed for Muncie. The weather was
crappy and I was no more than a couple thousand AGL. I was also
headed directly toward the center of the airport. They finally cam on
when I could see the airport ahead and said, "We really need to have
you turn heading 090 for traffic avoidance. I replied I'd be glad to
and would they please let me know when I could turn back to 180. Just
a minute of two later they came back on with " Eight Thirty Three
Romeo, Turn to heading 180 approved." It may not have been standard,
but it worked..

Now if VFR it's often difficult to squeeze in edgewise to receive an
acknowledgement and I don't get handed off to any one. However I find
if I put myself at altitudes through busy airspace but outside their
actual air space I get noticed and they usually get helpful. Just put
your self about a 1000 feet above the top of a control zone or near a
climb corridor that is not specifically in their airspace. Traveling
near 200 MPH and close enough to get noticed seems to work. OTOH with
a could deck that keeps me low it's a whole different world.

I give them my altitude and heading which will put me a thousand feet
above the class D or C and I may hear "stay out of the control zone"
to which I reply "I'll be passing directly over the airport 1000 feet
above the control zone. That usually results in a repeat of the "stay
out of the class C", probably with the hope I'll change course.

If they get cranky and tell me that's busy airspace I just reply,
"that's why I asked for flight following".

OTOH I could file IFR, Then they can route me around and way out in to
boonies for traffic avoidance. Been there and done that. On the one
occasion I'd have canceled IFR and just stayed up on top, but we were
headed for OSH and I'd have been too close to air file to get back in
the system.

However I agree with Denny. At least for me VFR is treated quite
differently than it used to be.



Even before 9/11, you *always* have had to open and close the VFR flight
plan with FSS, and request flight following from ATC. They're separate

Some times yes and some times no, but not always. Maybe they were just
being nice, but I found different areas to operate differently. Some
times quite differently.

functions. ROC Approach always insisted that you have a flight plan on
file before they'd give you flight following, and when I'd mention that

A number of those flights to MIE were not on flight plans yet I had
flight following all the way complete with hand offs.

here people accused me of lying or being mistaken. Without the VFR flight
plan, they'd refuse to hand you off but turn you lose and maybe give you a
frequency to contact for the next facility. Even with the flight plan,

That does happen, flight plan or no flight plan.
I had to leave the Deb at Muncie for a week and a friend flew the old
Cherokee 180 down. He was actually 2000 feet above me. I was handed
off between approaches and even centers. He was turned loose and had
to call up the next approach.

He started out about 15 minutes ahead of me so I head most of his
conversations and call ups. I'd get handed off and he'd get turned
loose. I have no idea why.

I flew down to Lansing IL recently and it was difficult to find any
approach that would talk to me.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

you'd sometimes get turned loose. When NavCanada was just taking over in
Canada, Toronto would refuse to take VFR hand-offs from Buffalo or
Rochester, and you'd either have to dive beneath their airspace or go
around.

When I went to places in Canada outside of Toronto, it was nice because
Canadian towers open and close VFR flight plans. But I never quite got
the hang of getting flight following from Ottawa - they'd always just turn
me lose and then I'd try to raise Wheeler Sack as I got closer to the
border. I've been told that the secret is to file a "Controlled VFR"
flight plan, but I've never tried it because I got my IFR rating before I
got a chance.

Post 9/11, you still have to be on a flight plan of some sort to cross the
border, and now you have to be talking to ATC as well. So I just find it
a ton easier to file IFR rather than deal with all "will he hand me off,
or won't he, only his bartender knows for sure" crap.