"Stan Prevost" wrote:
But the FARs a
FAR 91.175
(j) Limitation on procedure turns. In the case of a radar vector to a
final
approach course or fix, a timed approach from a holding fix, or an
approach
for which the procedure specifies "No PT," no pilot may make a procedure
turn unless cleared to do so by ATC.

Subpart (i) right above that starts touching on unpublished routes, but
seems
to mostly talk about altitudes to maintain, not routes to fly. You could
say
that (j) above covers that, but it doesnt talk about unpublished routes.
The
only way I could see the whole issue perfectly cleared up is if they added
in (j) "on an unpublished route within XX degrees of the
intermediate or final approach course", but it doesnt. It is a vague area
between (i) and (j) and the AIMS 5-4-9a5 (PT not required when...).
(j) is the only place in 91.175 where PT's are mentioned. Regs and
our 7110.65 seem often to be written in the negative, like this one where
it says when you CANT do a PT. I'd be sweating in court as a pilot
trying to dig a positive statement that I COULD do one in that limited
paragraph.

OK, a second point.
A radar vector is a heading to fly. A clearance to a fix is not a vector,
it specifies a specific point to fly to.
A vector to final will be a heading to fly (the vector) followed by an
instruction to join the final approach course.

In 7110.65 5-6-2e METHODS, and this is a clearance we give daily
whether the airplane is GPS/FMS/RNAV or not....
FLY HEADING (degrees). WHEN ABLE, PROCEED
DIRECT (name of fix),
That above is a vector, it is also a specific point to fly to, and a
perfectly legitimate clearance. So are you saying if he said the
above, a PT would NOT be authorized because of 91.175, yet
it would be authorized if it was MINUS "fly heading"?

And you can be vectored to a radial outside the IAF, and not just
direct to the IAF. Many times I get that request so they can set
up and established a little before the IAF. So vectors are not just
for the FAC.

Regardless, I still dont see the "necessary" part of the PT in this
scenario. Ya, I know that's only in the AIM, but how would you
be able to defend that part if you were set up a mile outside of
the IAF on the radial, or 10 miles, or 100 miles out. I can easily
see an FAA attorney using this argument.

Chris

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Steve Bosell for President 2004
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