"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
"Chip Jones" wrote:
[snipped]

This brings me back to something you mentioned in your original post,
that got my attention. You said:

There is a large thunderstorm sweeping south
over the Knoxville airport and the TYS controllers are busy holding
their
own arrivals for the storm to pass. To ease their workload, TYS calls
my
trainee and begs him to work the approach into RKW.

How does this work? Can two facilities really swap airspace back and
forth between themselves with something as informal as a phone call?
There's a reason I ask...

ATC is flexible in everything but basic separation minima. Two controllers
can work out all kinds of thngs with a simple phone call between them,
including swapping airspace. We do this a lot here in ZTL and I'm sure it
happens all over the country. It's all in the name of efficiency. I can
think of six airports in or near my airspace for which I might swap
approach/departure control service with an adjacent sector or facility.
Sometimes it makes more sense for me to work you into an airport just across
a boundary than for me to hand you off to the controlling sector facility.
All of this can be done with a simple coordination land line call between
controllers.

Controllers can even swap separation standards between terminal and Center,
or between non-radar and radar. Here's a quick example of one aspect of
this:

Tracon: "Hey Center, can ya give me a higher on Air Wisconsin? I need to
top this ATR I'm shipping you at ten..."

Center: "You can have higher on the Air Wisconsin if you use your radar to
separate him from the Mooney on a code of 0735 at 11,000 crossing five miles
off his nose. Reference the Mooney, give AWI FL180."

Tracon: "Mooney traffic observed, show it..."

In this quickie, the terminal guy is using 3 miles separation with his local
ASR radar to top traffic in the Center, where the Center controller needs 5
miles minima using Center ARSR. With a quick phone call, ATC applies
terminal separation minima using terminal radar to aircraft in Center
airspace.


A while back, I was flying into MMK (Meriden, CT) on a training flight
with a student. We were IFR, conditions were night, but clear skies.

[snipped]


So, could you fill me in on what was happening behind the scenes? Once
I went lost comm, how did ATC deal with that? Did the Bradley guy just
hand me off to NY when he saw me leaving his airspace? And, most
interesting to me, how was the NY controller able to clear us for an
approach to an airport that he didn't own?

When you went lost comm, the Bradley controller probably cursed out loud
before he did anything else. But he wasn't cursing you, he was likely
cursing the FAA radio coverage for the area. I betcha that the BDL
controller knows that aircraft into MMK at certain altitudes on certain
approaches may lose comm. That is also probably the controller's
experience. Probably happens fairly often at MMK and he wonders why his
radios still suck after all the reports he has filed to AF. Like you said,
your experience is that comm with BDL has been pretty poor into this
airport. He was likely prepared with a Plan B and also a Plan C for comm.

BDL loses you, they probably played musical ATC transmitters/receivers on
the frequency to get you back. In the Center, I can toggle between primary,
secondary and back-up transmitters and receivers. I imagine BDL has the
same capability with their comm equipment. After he BDL fails to get you
with his in-house radio tricks, he resorts to an air to air relay. The air
to air relay is a failure. The BDL guy, realizing that you are still
tooling downwind on his vector, calls up his buddy at N90 and explains the
situation. Most likely, if the BDL/N90 boundary is so close to MMK, this is
not the first time this exact scenario has played out.

The N90 controller likely had either taken a "point-out" from BDL on your
aircraft or else N90 was doing a simple airspace block for your approach.
If it was a point out, it meant that the N90 controller was already watching
you and protecting your target from his own traffic as BDL vectored you near
the facility boundary. If N90 was blocking the airspace around MMK for you,
then they had simply sterilized N90 airspace that conflicts with your
approach into MMK. Either way, the BDL guy probably called his N90 partner
on the land line and explained that you were NORDO. The N90 guy then tagged
your target up and watched you come his way, lost comm.

Meanwhile, the ARTCC controller who took your radio transmission had to call
either N90 or BDL, most likely N90. From his perch in the Center airspace
above the lowly tracons, the Center controller probably saw you down below,
inside N90 airspace. The New York controller probably told Boston Center to
"put him on me" when Center called to say you'd come up on Center freq.
ARTCC switched you to N90. Meanwhile, the N90 guy called the BDL guy and
said that N90 was working you now in good comm. Since BDL couldn't talk to
you anyway, they released the airspace at MMK to N90, in essence reversing
the tactical situation at MMK between N90 and BDL. For the time it took you
to make the approach, N90 controlled the airspace around MMK and BDL was
blocking for you.

Because the BDL guy released the airspace to N90, the N90 guy could clear
you in. The New York Approach controllers are among the best in the
business anywhere, and this guy probably had a working knowledge of MMK
since it was so close by. Once you were cleared to the CTAF and given the
comm instructions for the Missed, N90 was done with you. N90 called BDL and
gave them your approach clearance time and the details. They probably kept
a tag on you just in case your comm problems with Bradley continued after
the miss. BDL resumed control of MMK once you got cleared for approach and
both facilities had to block the airspace until you missed. Once you got
back into two-way comm with BDL after the missed, BDL called N90 and told
them to cancel the block at MMK. N90 dropped their tag on you and life went
on.

Chip, ZTL