Ed Rasimus wrote:

I used to use airspace blocks.

Using is not scheduling...

I started operating in the environment
with the military in 1964 and did it continuously until 1987. During
that time I also operated in Europe and Asia. In the process my
assignments included tasks ranging from squadron scheduling (airspace
required for training, you know) to Operations Officer management
(getting entire units operationally ready) to NATO exercise planning
requiring negotiation of airspace from multiple national agencies.
I've even done airspace coordination in battle space to deconflict
fast-movers, army aviation and artillery (FAA wasn't in the plan.)

If this activity was in the U.S. the FAA was in the plan, but you might
have not known it.
Who did the using agency (not the scheduling activity) coordinate with
to release the airspace for DOD usage?

I've got a working background in the subject both from the ground and
the operator side of the house.

Yes, you were the guys that I sometimes coordinated with from the other
side of the house and I often dealt with aircraft in MTRs that hadn't
been scheduled, fast movers flying through restricted areas where there
happened to be scheduled artillery fire, fast movers dropping ordnance
where they shouldn't, groups of fast movers buzzing helicopters, etc.
BTW, I also saw plenty of well-done coordination but not always.
The not always part is what I'm concerned about.

Why should the military have priority over GA? The first rule of the
NAS is "first come, first serve".

That is patently absurd.

The National Airspace System's first priority is the separation of
aerial traffic, period.
FAA 7100.65 assigns priorities for air traffic controllers. The first
operational priority (FAA 71110.65 2-1-4) is:

'Provide air traffic control service to aircraft on a "first come,
first served" basis as circumstances permit'.

"As circumstances permit" covers the contingencies.

File a flight plan along the north Florida
coast and see if you can get "first come, first serve(d)" priority
over a Shuttle launch. Or file though White Sands when a retest of a
drone becomes necessary and see if you get your service.


Nobody is saying that GA aircraft can transit through these areas. But
in the course of normal operations the military has no higher
operational priority than any civilian, barring some over-riding need.

National security and operational expedience can and often do take
priority over "first come" service.

Those are exceptions and are coordinated with the FAA.

List who gets to use a block of airspace--"Mr Safety" doesn't make the
list.

That's an interesting statement coming from a pilot. More fuel for the
fire for Mr. Dighera.

Read again slowly and try not to move your lips.

Ad hominem attack - that's below you. I highly respect your viewpoint
as an aviator and am not making any personal attacks on you.

Your introduction of
"safety" as a priority when the discussion was prioritization of
military, commercial and GA traffic was the subject. Safety is a goal.
Safety is the number 1 priority goal. Then efficiency, operational
necessity, time criticality, etc. will vie for runners-up.

Semantics. I'm suggesting that safety should be given the highest
priority when it comes to assigning airspace blocks and the
prioritization of traffic.


But if I ask you to build a priority list with military, commercial,
GA, safety, fuel economy, radar availability, cost of gas at the pump,
control of Gaza and protecting the whales, you will have a tough time
creating a rationale. At this point, Mr. Dighera has burned himself
out. His tape is on continous loop and I can do little to inflame or
douse him.

Well, nuke the whales and remove one factor from the equation.

Control of airspace is an operational necessity. That is different
than assumption of control responsibility for the nation.

Nope, it's the same thing. The agency that owns the airspace (the FAA)
controls it. It's
loaned to the military who sub-control it. But some of them may think
they control it because they don't know any better.

I wouldn't
want LA Center doing control over Nellis ranges and I don't believe
they have the slightest concern over WSMR is being used for a missile
shot or supersonic dissimilar training.

But ZLA can yank all of that airspace back from loan to DOD with just
one phone call. Been there, seen it done, been on both ends in fact.
So you tell me: who controls it? DOD is the "using agency", always.


But, for a lot of years during WW-Cold, there was an bi-lateral agency
called NORAD that would have pulled the plug on the FAA in an instant
when the unthinkable occurred.

That was based on a plan which coordinated what agency would do what in
an emergency. NORAD didn't "pull the plug" on the FAA; NORAD or
somebody at the national level invoked the requisite plan, and the FAA
did its part and the other agencies did their part.

And, during the heyday of Air Defense
Command, you might recall that FAA lost control of military climb
corridors in an instant when there was an air defense scramble.

Yes, but that was coordinated with the FAA in an LOA. When ADC was
done protecting the country, the FAA got that block of airspace back.


But you can also take to the bank that the military has no desire to
prioritize whether American out of D/FW gets priority release over
Southwest from Love Field.


But if they were given the chance to make a decision on whether a
flight of F-15s Southwest got out of DFW first, who would they pick?

But, when PATCO went on strike, they quickly learned that there were
alternatives to their paternal (pun unintentional) control of the
skies. They weren't missed for long.

Their successors are learning the same bitter lessons that the PATCO
controllers learned...


John Hairell )