"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
I was not trying to scare anyone. I put down what I spent. I have been
lurking in this group and reading/posting to the student group for a
while,
this topic comes up from time to time. It seemed to be information
people
wanted to know. I tried to qualify the amount by clearly stating that I
included EVERYTHING. There are two previous posts that attempt to define
what I meant by everything. I am also not bitching about what I spent,
it
cost what it cost.

I know, but please make sure everyone knows that your experience is NOT
optimal, nor even typical. That's my only point in posting.

I thought I did, I clearly stated that it took me 2.5 years.

2. I got airsick during a lot of the early lessons, clarification - I
PUKED,
these lessons were not very informative.

Clearly! :-) And, as I said, I applaud your persistence. You let
nothing stop you, and that's the key to success -- in anything.


Thanks!

3. My instructor was out of town for some extended periods during
training.

This can be a real problem. Mary and I were lucky enough to be with
the same CFIs from start to finish (another advantage of
compressed-time training), and my guy owned the FBO, so he was ALWAYS
available.

I was not "fleeced" as you say. My flight school is very reasonably
priced,
my instructor was an honest man, who as far as I can tell really did not
need the $22 an hour or whatever portion of that he gets from the school.

You were not intentionally fleeced -- but you *were* fleeced. You spent
at least 100% more than average, and 150% more than necessary. I
don't know a better definition of "fleeced" than that.

From an online dictionary, the definition of fleeced -

fleeced, fleec·ing, fleec·es
1. To defraud of money or property; swindle.

To say I was fleeced implies one of two things:
1. Dishonesty on the part of my flight school/instructor.
2. Stupidity on my part.

Which one of these are you implying?


I do not think that coming in here and speaking honestly about my
experience
is a disservice to GA, as you put it. Pie in the sky estimates of a PPL
for
3500 bucks and flying 3 times a week, while holding down a full time job
and
raising kids is more of a disservice.

I did it. Anyone can do it. It just takes commitment.

You speaking honestly is definitely a service to everyone here, and I
don't want to imply otherwise. But don't expect everyone to just nod
sagely and say "Too bad" -- that's not the way it works here!

OK, see above and below. I will play for a while, but these UseNet
argumnets are usually unwinable by either party. :-)


:-)

Look at your number, seriously. The numbers thrown around in here for
plane
rental have ranged from 65 an hour wet for a c152 (that was me) up to 130
for a c172. Instructors have ranged from 22 to 40 an hour. Lets just do
some simple math.

20 hours dual at 110 an hour (80 for the plane and 30 for the instructor)
=
2200
20 hours solo at 80 and hour. = 1600

OK, we are at 3800, 300 more than your pie in the sky estimate.

My "pie in the sky estimate" was an actual number -- from 1994. As I
said, Mary's cost somewhat more, thanks to inflation (she got hers in
1997). I'm sure it's higher yet, now.

But it ain't 12 grand.

I never said it would cost everyone who goes for their PPL after me 12
grand. I said I spent 12 grand.


We still
have to get a medical, I think mine was 100.

You don't get an annual check up? Every other year?

I get one about every five years, my insurance pays for it. My GP is not
qualified to give FAA medical. Will insurance pay for a flight medical? If
so, I did not know it. At any rate, it was directly related to my flying so
I included it.


Books, charts, a headset,
plotter, e6b, A/FD, flight bag etc.

My first head set cost (I am not kidding) $7, used. My plotter, E6B
and flight bag were all used, mostly gifts. I've never owned an A/FD
-- just borrowed 'em.

Experiences differ, I had to buy mine.


We are also assuming that you have no
ground time with the instructor, you just get in the plane and fly. I
don't
know about you guys, but I had ground sessions with my instructor on
weather, FAR/AIM topics, night flying, aerodynamic principles etc. He
donated a lot of that time, but some of it is required and I had to pay
for
it.

My instructor never charged for ground time.

Mine charged for some of it, did not for some of it. But I included the time
I was charged.


The written test was 50 or 75, written study materials were 100 to 150.
Anyway, the point is you are over 3500 by a lot.

Not in 1994 dollars.

If you know a way I can spend 1994 dollars in 2006, please tell me. Or
better yet let me choose to spend 1900 dollars in 2006. Lets see, I go to
the Porsche dealer and tell them I want a 2007 911 Carrera, but I want to
pay for it in 1960 dollars. I wonder if that will work. Youre
rationalizing away cost here..

But I agree, if you can finish the ticket in 40 - 60 hours, the cost will be
much less than what I spent. But, I will repeat here that I was not
fleeced. I knew exactly what I was spending and why through the whole
process.

3 days of flying a week may be doable in the west, but here in N.
Alabama,
especially in the summertime, you get these huge black clouds a lot in
the
afternoons, you know the time after most people get off of work.

In Wisconsin, in the winter, we scrubbed a lot of flights. The trick
is to schedule 3 flights a week, and plan on making two of them.
Between scheduling conflicts, weather, mechanical issues, that's about
what it works out to.

I would schedule three, when I could. But we agree here, it was rare that
you would get all three of them for a multitude of reasons. I only did the
before work thing a couple of times, I am NOT a morning person. It was not
enjoyable so I did not do it anymore.


Anyway, I was not trying to scare anyone away. I was certainly not
bitching
about the cost. I put the information out there and was as honest as I
could be about what I spent.

I know, and that's why I said "No offense". I'm not faulting you for
posting -- I welcome it -- but I want everyone in this forum to know
that your experience is NOT typical, and that they can earn their wings
for less -- MUCH less.

I agree, and I tried to qualify what I posted by also giving the time frame,
number of hours flown and other realted information about my training.


Remember it is not a contest, I was not trying to get the cheapest
license
in the least amount of time of anyone else in the group, I just wanted to
learn how to fly and it was harder for me than for others.

And that is all that counts, in the end. We all tip our hats to you,
John -- you had a tough row to hoe, and made it through!

Thanks for that! Maybe I will make out to your hotel one day, it looks like
an interesting place to visit.

John

--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"