Shawn wrote:
Bill Daniels wrote:
"ASM" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jim Vincent wrote:
Unfortunately, there are too many clubs that tell their student
memberships
the wood or metal are POS and that glass is the only way to go. I recall
one time hearing a student with perhaps ten flights call a 1-26 a POS.
Amazing to hear a club instructor mold the minds that way, but it
happens.


"Tony" wrote in message
ups.com...
They just have to get the fiberglass hotshot ships out of their dreamy
eyes. This sport CAN be made cheap for young people entering if they
will let it. This means flying a low performance glider, with a
sectional and a compass, maybe a TE probe, and a barograph with landing
witness documents.

Ask me how I know.

I doubt it...they will price themselves out of the market....I was and
am a strong believer that the main reason behind young people not
participating in our sport is simply the direct cost.

Jacek

They just have to get the fiberglass hotshot ships out of their dreamy
eyes. This sport CAN be made cheap for young people entering if they
will let it. This means flying a low performance glider, with a
sectional and a compass, maybe a TE probe, and a barograph with landing

witness documents.

Ask me how I know.


I cannot agree with you more. I started flying in a wood ships such as
the Bocian and Bekas (I wonder how many pilots knows what that is ) and
than my first single seat was Mucha Standard....boy, I could not wait
to fly the Pirat, that was the dream machine...and now? If you don't
fly ASW 27B or ASG 29 than you are not worth spending any time
with....when I taught people (students) flying in a Citabria you know
what kind of crap I and my students had to put up with....."the 182 had
a gps and an auto-pilot, flaps and a nice comfy heater, why do you want
to fly this piece of crap?" Well, the situation is similar here....but
I agree that this sport still can be made affordable, even with a PW-5
or 1-26. The SZD 51-1 Junior was a luxury....but anyway....in the US I
am barking on the wrong tree. The snobbism rules and if you can't
afford the ASW-27B read above...in overall, it is a sad story....such a
beautiful sport...

Jacek
Washington State


I understand where you guys are coming from but it's instructive to look
carefully at the actual costs of learning to fly gliders. Glider rental
rates are not the big factor. Launch fees are more than half the total
cost.

Most airplane training operation use trainers that cost far more than a new
ASK-21 yet they seem to still have lots of customers. Sleek glass gliders
are a big draw. Clunky old trainers drive more people away than they
attract with low costs.

Training costs do need to be reduced but attack the launch cost with a winch
and keep the glass gliders.

The club I fly at is in a college town, Boulder, CO. Lots of college
kids rip around town on $10,000 Ducs and Suzukis. There's lots of money
out there in the hands of young potential pilots. Yes, I know, you hear
from people with kids wanting to fly, that cost is prohibitive. However
this is a subset of the population that is already interested in
soaring. They may be sold on the sport, but some who are driven away by
cost would find the sport financially challenging at half the cost.
Bicycling may be too expensive for them.
The challenge I feel soaring should address is luring those with the
time, inclination, and the *money*, who would not otherwise know about
our sport. Don't chase the choir with cheaper robes. The battle isn't
the price, it's marketing.


Shawn

I will agree with you up to a point. "MONEY" in the sense is not just
money...it is the time involved, it is the atmosphere of your
surroundings, it is the people they interact with...all of that
combined together is a "COST". Take a look at skydiving centers...young
person walks in and is greeted and treated as equal...and then they
train you how to throw yourself out of an airplane and you have
fun...or you get a skateboard or surfboard....and when it comes to the
end of the day, they seat down, open a bottle of wine, whiskey, beer,
they play loud music, etc....some people in our sport were "annoyed"
because I was too noisy...I speak loud, I like to listen to a loud
music, I like to drink wine and whiskey and eat whatever I want to and
the dinosaurs are saying to me "you are obnoxious" because they like to
whip their 100+ ships, fly around for a while, land and seat and talk
about old times very quietly, they have no sense of humor....what is
there that will attract more young potential pilots? Nothing,
absolutely nothing. The only thing is I don't care about what people
are thinking about me...I have my own ships, I can travel and I am not
old yet...but when I grow old (it can happen at any age) someone will
have to kick my rear end to bring me back to my youthful setting....
When it comes to a tow I agree that besides tow planes winches would be
an excellent addition to our training...I designed one....someone wants
to built one...I can do it....

Jacek
Washington State