In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

Do you normally get arrival and departure procedures when you request
the IFR clearance, or does the arrival procedure not come up until you
are approaching your destination?

The latter. (Obviously you get the departure clearance up front.)

ATC will often change your routing en-route also.

I've had a lot of trouble programming a FMS with procedures on the
fly, which is why I ask. I also have to try to dig up charts on the
spur of the moment, which is awkward.

Indeed. Real flying is not trivial.

rg