On 1 Jan 2007 06:04:26 -0800, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

At the other end of the scale is general aviation. Aviation is a
horrendously complex form of transportation--the most complex around,

I find this quite funny. You have fallen for it, hook, line and
sinker.


Not at all.

I think you're responding to a mix of my comments and MX's. In the
narrative, above, I was tellihng HIM that *he* had fallen for it -- not
anyone else.

Damn attributes:-))

I do not see learning to fly as any thing extra ordinary, or macho.
It, like any other discipline such as playing the guitar, or piano
takes time, practice and dedication. That is why in the over all
population you see so few good guitar and piano players but those two
disciplines consist of far more rote learning than flying. Yet flying
is much more of an art than driving a car and is much more related to
learning a musical instrument.

I have pondered this endlessly. Is flying an art, or a science?

I think it, like skating is a mixture of both. There is a great deal
of rote learning at first, then there is the repetitive practice with
each maneuver building from what has gone before. Ground reference
maneuvers aid pattern work. Stalls not only help to keep the student
out of trouble they aid in learning to land. Eventually the pilot who
practices enough will get a "feel" for the maneuvers be they the basic
ones or aerobatic. I'd liken this stage to the pilots who never
progress beyond flying stabilized patterns and never gain the feel and
flexibility to have the controllers at Oshkosh tell them what to do
when and where to set down.


I know it took me at least 500 hours to feel that I really *knew* how
to land an aircraft. Does that make me a dunce, or is it just an
admission that flying is more like playing the guitar?

I *knew* how to land one early on but it took a long time before I
could do a decent job of it. :-))

Which doesn't mean I was ever unsafe in the first 500 hours, BTW. But
I was playing chopsticks, instead of Beethoven's Fifth.

I think most "real" pilots can identify with that.

The "complexity" of GA is a myth that has been foisted upon the general
public by the "big-watch" pilots who simply LOVE to flaunt how cool
they are under pressure. John Wayne movies in the '50s and '60s cast
the mold for this pilot stereotype (which was effectively skewered in
the "Airplane" movies, BTW), and pilots have done little to counter
this stereotype ever since.

Again we disagree although much is in terms and actions. I know of
few pilots who behave as you describe above. Even many air show pilots
are showing off a skill, not lauding their ability over the mere
mortals. To me, flying is a place where the macho attitude can get
you killed

Agree.

Often the attitude I describe isn't professed as much as projected.
It's that quiet, Gary Cooper-type macho cloak of "I know everything"

Here the pilot has to walk a fine line between sounding like a know it
all and projecting an air of confidence that will instill confidence
in the passenger(s)

Following a sudden bump with "Ohhhh...****! What the devil was that?,
or is that floppy thing still hooked on to the wind is not exactly the
thing to do either. :-))

OTOH I do have to plead guilty to having had at least a fleeting
though of doing such with a couple of passengers over the years.

attitude that we pilots are so good at wearing. It's taken me a long
time to understand that this attitude is what gives the non-flying
public the *opinion* (remember, we're talking outside perceptions here,
not reality) that flying is some sort of a super-human feat that MUST
be terribly difficult.

That;s kinda, sorta, almost, showing confidence is arrogant while not
showing it is projecting incompetence. Damned if we do and damned if
we don't.:-))


I think this attitude is what gives many airports their intimidating
persona, which has always adversely affected new pilots. We, as
pilots, need to become more welcoming and positive about what we love,

If you pull into Midland's Barstow Airport (3BS) and spot a hanger
with a *bunch* of cars around it, all a newbie would have to do is go
over and introduce themselves, ask a few questions, and it's quite
likely some one would take them for a ride in any thing from a Sonex
to a Bonanza or even a 310.

if we hope to attract new believers. (This really IS a religious
thing, BTW... ;-)

Amen!
And it's a religion to which I can subscribe with a clear conscience.


It's also, BTW, one of the major reasons GA is floundering. Too many
people think they're not "good enough" to be a pilot.

This too I disagree with.
Not that people aren't smart enough, but that they don't have the mind
set to make a safe pilot, nor do they care.

Although I agree with you to some degree, this is NOT something that
we, as pilots, should be projecting to the general public. We need to
be trumpeting the joys and advantages of GA to all concerned, and let
the training weed out the incompetents.

I try. We have a very active group of pilots here at Midland (3BS) and
I described the EAA Chapter 1093 activities in another post. When it
comes to the Young Eagles program I try to get a parent or two to go
along. Some members thing we should only be taking kids but when you
look at the fence hangers look at dad's or mom's eyes. You can tell
some of them want to go as bad or even worse than the kid. One of my
most rewarding projects was being chairman of the "Kids to Oshkosh"
program for quite a few years.



To do anything else results in the elimination of good, qualified pilot
candidates based on our perceptions and assumptions. Multiply these
assumptions by 400,000 pilots, and if we're wrong even 10% of the time,
we've eliminated a HUGE number of future pilots simply by projecting a
bad attitude.

Why? Quite frankly, too many of us love to portray the steely-eyed
God-pilot, laughing in the face of death and pressing on to our final
destination at all costs -- it makes picking up chicks easier. In

Again I disagree with you. I've flown for many years and the only
women it impressed were those already interested in flying. The rest
thought I was crazy.

You haven't noticed that women are attracted to crazy guys? ;-)

I've noticed a lot of the young women with kids at the skating arena
don't think an old guy out on the ice is crazy. Some of the remarks
are better for the ego than flying and that's saying a lotLOL


You have a far higher opinion of the average driver than I do. As I
mentioned, in our county the sheriff and several other officers have
stated that over a third of those on the road are driving on suspended
or revoked licenses. Plus we have a bunch that never made the grade.

Oh no I don't. I think most drivers are idiots. However, that's
beside the point. I think everyone should have equal access to both
flying and driving, provided they can pass the tests. The trouble with
the driving test, as it stands today (in Iowa, anyway), is that it is
SO rudimentary that only the physically and mentally disabled can be
expected to fail. (And even they can get waivers.)

Michigan is the same. Miss a question and they'll give you the
answer.


And they've supposedly made the driving test harder in recent years.
Scary.

I would not let the average driver near my car let alone my airplane.
Be it from their mental state, drinking habits, refusal to take
responsibility, (blame the cop for the traffic ticket),poor judgmental
ability, inability to plan ahead, inability to multitask, and/or poor
communications skills I don't want them near my *stuff*. If I took the
time I could probably come up with a lot of other reasons. Oh! one
that comes to mind is the number that will have a criminal record is
staggering.

I agree that this is a problem. In my opinion, people with criminal
records should be exempted from many basic societal privileges,
including driving (and certainly flying). But then, I favor the death
sentence for many lesser crimes, so I'm clearly in the minority.

To you and me it is simple because we've done it so many times we
don't need to think about it consciously. To the non flyer who never
even checks the oil in the car it would be a daunting list.

Come to think of it, I don't check the oil in the car either.:-))
I do look under it, just in case, but that's usually to make sure the
cat isn't sleeping there.


To most kids, learning to drive is fairly difficult. Imagine how hard
Some never manage but still get their licenses. Coming home from the
university one night in an ice storm where the roads were covered with
about an inch of black ice I watched the car ahead wiggle a little.
The driver immediately stomped on the brakes. This of course put the
car into a skid. She never took her foot off the brake until the car
came to a stop out in a field. Had she simply taken her foot off the
brake in about the first 10 seconds (we were moving really slow) the
car would have become controllable and straightened out on it's own.
That driver didn't have the faintest idea as to how to get out of a
skid and did an action opposite of what should have been done..


I started driving when I had to stand up to see out. OTOH cars were a
bit different back then and a floor shift was considered old
fashioned. I had a regular license, not a farm permit at 14. Of course
if a car had 40,000 miles it was almost over the hill.

it would be if we didn't start teaching driving until folks were in
their 40s -- the average age of new pilots nowadays? Bottom line: If
kids regarded learning to fly as "normal" (the way they do driving),
and they had grown up flying everywhere (the way they do in their
parent's cars now) I believe they would find learning to fly no harder
than learning to drive.

I think it's a mind set that may have developed with age rather than a
limitation placed by age. People are good at convincing themselves age
is going to slow them down. I quit work and went to college full time
at age 47. I did far better than an earlier try just out of high
school.

I did find it took more work than it did when I was younger, but I
didn't find that a hindrance. I did find it required I get by on less
sleep than I was used to. Also I was one of those kids who never had
to study to get good grades in my early years so when I entered
college I did not know how to study. At 47 I had learned how to study
even if it was more work.

One major surprise was how my abilities had changed. In high school,
English was my poorest subject. In college some 30 years later it was
an absolute breeze. In high school, Chemistry was my best subject. In
college it was my worst.

If I hadn't taken 8 hours of chemistry I'd have graduated with honors
at age 50. (just missed by a fraction of a point) I went into a good
job and retired just 7 years later.

As to age: After retiring, Joyce got me started in figure skating. I
picked up most of the moves far faster than all but two of the kids in
the classes. It took me about a year to learn to do a good scratch
spin that was fast, prolonged and controllable. I did have a couple
of very good coaches. My point is that with no preconceived
limitations I was able to tackle both mental and physical tasks that
are normally considered only for the young.


If you break down the tasks involved with driving on Chicago's
Interstate 294 in rush-hour traffic (basically close formation flight,
with infrequent and sudden stops and starts) and compare it to the
tasks involved with the average $100 hamburger flight, I don't think
there's any comparison. Once you've got the rote procedures down pat,
flying is MUCH easier.

I'd try to avoid driving in those conditions even if flying cost a lot
more.


Too few of our non-flying brethren know this. We need to tell them.

As I said, I keep trying.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com