You cite the rule, that by the two exceptions the FAA lists
for logging time as PIC when not manipulating the controls,
allow logging that time as PIC just because two bozos agree
to both log PIC time beforehand.

It is legal to log the time under the requirement of 91.109
but 91`.109 does not state whether that loggable time is PIC
or SIC.

Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 61-CERTIFICATION: PILOTS, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS, AND
GROUND INSTRUCTORS
Subpart A-General

Browse Previous | Browse Next


§ 61.51 Pilot logbooks.
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person
must document and record the following time in a manner
acceptable to the Administrator:

(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the
requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of
this part.

(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the
recent flight experience requirements of this part.

(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the
requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person
must enter the following information for each flight or
lesson logged:

(1) General-

(i) Date.

(ii) Total flight time or lesson time.

(iii) Location where the aircraft departed and arrived, or
for lessons in a flight simulator or flight training device,
the location where the lesson occurred.

(iv) Type and identification of aircraft, flight simulator,
or flight training device, as appropriate.

(v) The name of a safety pilot, if required by §91.109(b) of
this chapter.

(2) Type of pilot experience or training-

(i) Solo.

(ii) Pilot in command.

(iii) Second in command.

(iv) Flight and ground training received from an authorized
instructor.

(v) Training received in a flight simulator or flight
training device from an authorized instructor.

(3) Conditions of flight-

(i) Day or night.

(ii) Actual instrument.

(iii) Simulated instrument conditions in flight, a flight
simulator, or a flight training device.

(c) Logging of pilot time. The pilot time described in this
section may be used to:

(1) Apply for a certificate or rating issued under this part
or a privilege authorized under this part; or

(2) Satisfy the recent flight experience requirements of
this part.

(d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot
performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship
requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may
log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot
is the sole occupant of the aircraft.

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport,
recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log
pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which
that person-

(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft
for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;

(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or

(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in
command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is
required under the type certification of the aircraft or the
regulations under which the flight is conducted.

(2) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command
time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command
of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot
certificate.

(3) An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command
time all flight time while acting as an authorized
instructor.

(4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when
the student pilot-

(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing
the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more
than one pilot flight crewmember;

(ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under
§61.87 of this part; and

(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or
rating.

(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log
second-in-command time only for that flight time during
which that person:

(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command
requirements of §61.55 of this part, and occupies a
crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than
one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or

(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument
rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight)
for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is
required under the type certification of the aircraft or the
regulations under which the flight is being conducted.

(g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log
instrument time only for that flight time when the person
operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments
under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

(2) An authorized instructor may log instrument time when
conducting instrument flight instruction in actual
instrument flight conditions.

(3) For the purposes of logging instrument time to meet the
recent instrument experience requirements of §61.57(c) of
this part, the following information must be recorded in the
person's logbook-

(i) The location and type of each instrument approach
accomplished; and

(ii) The name of the safety pilot, if required.

(4) A flight simulator or approved flight training device
may be used by a person to log instrument time, provided an
authorized instructor is present during the simulated
flight.

(h) Logging training time. (1) A person may log training
time when that person receives training from an authorized
instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight
training device.

(2) The training time must be logged in a logbook and must:

(i) Be endorsed in a legible manner by the authorized
instructor; and

(ii) Include a description of the training given, the length
of the training lesson, and the authorized instructor's
signature, certificate number, and certificate expiration
date.

(i) Presentation of required documents. (1) Persons must
present their pilot certificate, medical certificate,
logbook, or any other record required by this part for
inspection upon a reasonable request by-

(i) The Administrator;

(ii) An authorized representative from the National
Transportation Safety Board; or

(iii) Any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.

(2) A student pilot must carry the following items in the
aircraft on all solo cross-country flights as evidence of
the required authorized instructor clearances and
endorsements-

(i) Pilot logbook;

(ii) Student pilot certificate; and

(iii) Any other record required by this section.

(3) A sport pilot must carry his or her logbook or other
evidence of required authorized instructor endorsements on
all flights.

(4) A recreational pilot must carry his or her logbook with
the required authorized instructor endorsements on all solo
flights-

(i) That exceed 50 nautical miles from the airport at which
training was received;

(ii) Within airspace that requires communication with air
traffic control;

(iii) Conducted between sunset and sunrise; or

(iv) In an aircraft for which the pilot does not hold an
appropriate category or class rating.

(5) A flight instructor with a sport pilot rating must carry
his or her logbook or other evidence of required authorized
instructor endorsements on all flights when providing flight
training.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62
FR 40897, July 30, 1997; Amdt. 61-104, 63 FR 20286, Apr. 23,
1998; Amdt. 61-110, 69 FR 44865, July 27, 2004]


Browse Previous | Browse Next

§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight
and certain flight tests.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft (except a manned
free balloon) that is being used for flight instruction
unless that aircraft has fully functioning dual controls.
However, instrument flight instruction may be given in a
single-engine airplane equipped with a single, functioning
throwover control wheel in place of fixed, dual controls of
the elevator and ailerons when-

(1) The instructor has determined that the flight can be
conducted safely; and

(2) The person manipulating the controls has at least a
private pilot certificate with appropriate category and
class ratings.

(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated
instrument flight unless-

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who
possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category
and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

(2) The safety pilot has adequate vision forward and to each
side of the aircraft, or a competent observer in the
aircraft adequately supplements the vision of the safety
pilot; and

(3) Except in the case of lighter-than-air aircraft, that
aircraft is equipped with fully functioning dual controls.
However, simulated instrument flight may be conducted in a
single-engine airplane, equipped with a single, functioning,
throwover control wheel, in place of fixed, dual controls of
the elevator and ailerons, when-

(i) The safety pilot has determined that the flight can be
conducted safely; and

(ii) The person manipulating the controls has at least a
private pilot certificate with appropriate category and
class ratings.

(c) No person may operate a civil aircraft that is being
used for a flight test for an airline transport pilot
certificate or a class or type rating on that certificate,
or for a part 121 proficiency flight test, unless the pilot
seated at the controls, other than the pilot being checked,
is fully qualified to act as pilot in command of the
aircraft.



FAR 1.1 (does not refer to logging time0

Pilot in command means the person who:

(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation
and safety of the flight;

(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during
the flight; and

(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating,
if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight

Second in command means a pilot who is designated to be
second in command of an aircraft during flight time.




"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
| On 01/22/07 12:33, Jim Macklin wrote:
| You ignored my reasoned statements, so I said your
statement
| was BS. I stand by that.
|
| All the rules you cite require that to LOG PIC you must
be
| the pilot flying.
|
| Okay, that's a compelling argument. Can you please state
which
| FAR it is that states that to log PIC you must be the
pilot flying?
|
| I can't find it.
|
|
|
| Yes, you are looking, you are a
safety
| pilot. You are required to be there because the single
| pilot can't see outside. But unless the guy under the
hood
| is just sitting there while YOU do the flying, YOU can't
LOG
| PIC unless you hold a CFI or the flight is an airline
| training flight and you're the assigned PIC.
|
| Just because a second pilot is required by 91.109 does
not
| make that pilot time logable as PIC unless they are the
sole
| manipulator.
|
| Again, I think the FARs disagree with you.
|
| It is very possible that neither pilot can log PIC, but
the
| FAA will insist that at least one of them will be held
| responsible as PIC even if they can't log it.
|
| A safety pilot who is not a CFI should log that time as
SIC
| because that is what it is. Required crew member not
| manipulating the controls.
|
|
|
| "Ron Natalie" wrote in message
| m...
| | Jim Macklin wrote:
| | BS
| |
| |
| |
| | Well there's a reasoned and intelligent comment backed
up
| with facts.
| | 61.51(2)(iii), 61.52(3), and 61.51(4) all provide for
| logging PIC
| | when acting as PIC. In this case 61.51(2)(iii)
applies as
| the flight
| | is conducted under 61.109(2) which requires a second
| pilot.
|
|
|