On 26 Feb 2007 08:48:37 -0800, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

BTW, had I
not gone back to college I'd have had enough time in to take full
returement at just over 52 working in the chemical industry.

I doubt those types of retirement plans will be around much longer.
(Well, except for our ruling class, of course.)

Why not? They work. The plans are growing. Both the employee and
company pay. For the CAP the company has a base 3% of your salary
that goes in and then they match 50/50 for a few more %. of what you
put in. You can put up to 15% of your salary into the account if you
wish. On top of that is the standard retirement plan. The money for
both plans is held by an investment firm and the company has no claim
to any of it.


Medically, there is no justification for them, and actuarily, they
can't be sustained.

Again, why not? I had over 35 years in and had earned that company
plenty. Unlike many companies that kept their own retirement accounts
they were smart enough to put the retirement plan in the hands of a
company that does that for a business. That meant the temptation to
use that money to cover expenses, or a short fall *temporarily* was
not an option. IOW they could not rob the employees retirement fund
as so many companies have done. Even though the company has fewer
employees now than when I retired the regular retirement plan is still
growing with earnings and their contributions combined.

Our accounts are investment based. I retired 10 years ago and my
account is worth more now (even after today's little correction and
the _dot_com_crash) than when I retired. Prior to the dot com crash
my cap was earning more than I was and I was putting every cent into
it they'd let me.

Michigan's financial woes are kinda like the dot com boom and bust,
but with blind reliance on the automotive industry instead of a
particular stock market segment. The industry has been blindly
following the path to building what people say they want, not what
they buy. Not too long ago the US industry was selling more trucks
than cars and those trucks are not noted for economy. Take the so
called "flex fuel" vehicle. The industry gets mileage credits for
them as they "could" be called green even though few of them will ever
run on anything but gas. They aren't even designed to use E85 for
extended periods. Their fuel systems are not designed to withstand the
abuse of E85 over prolonged periods. That leaves us with them still
making gas guzzlers that end up sitting on the lot when gas prices are
thought to be high. We haven't yet seen high gas prices in the US,
but we most likely will. We certainly will if the average driver
doesn't change their ways of driving.

Now those automotive employees represent a sizeable voting force. They
don't appear to want change and they probably have considerably more
political clout that the automotive companies themselves. Where else
can you get laid off for a while at full pay? OTOH they are making
some concessions now.

We had "planned obsolescence" which was great for the industry when
they had no competition. I had a 61 or 62 Mustang that rusted out
about 6 months after I purchased it new. of course the company stood
behind it. They'd pay half of the body shop work if I used a Ford
body shop. I got it done for less than that at the local body shop
that did better work. In 1980 I ended up with one that didn't have the
belly pan welded in. They had to strip the interior and redo the whole
thing, but at least I didn't have to pay that time. Up through the
70's US cars had an average life span that was pretty short. If it had
more than 50,000 miles you were getting concerned. If it had much more
than 60,000 it was almost worthless. Sure there were some outstanding
exceptions, but those were few. That approach gave foreign
manufacturers a foot in the door and it didn't take them long to
surpass the US made cars in quality. The Japanese went from "Junk" to
high quality at low cost in just a few years. Now they are having a
similar problem with Korea who is having the same problem with China.

Now days it's difficult to call a car US, Japanese, or what ever.
Assembled in USA would be more accurate The foreign manufacturers
(Particularly Japanese) build cars here, they make some parts here
and we use their parts (made here or there) in our "US" made cars.

Michigan has been unable to wean itself from the auto industry and
with the inertia of that industry and its employees, it's probably
going to get far worse before it gets better. OTOH we do have the
*possibility* of agriculture and alternative energy sources/fuels, but
only time will tell. If they think Michigan and the auto industry are
in bad shape now, wait until gas goes above $3.50 a gallon and stays
there. I doubt it's all that far off and increasing oil production
capacity is one of the worst things they can do.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com