On Mar 3, 1:04 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
Recently, Andrew Sarangan posted:

On Mar 3, 7:28 am, "Neil Gould" wrote:

Recently, Andrew Sarangan posted:

Terrain avoidance at night becomes a problem only in unpopulated
areas under an overcast moonless sky. It has happened, so it is a
real issue, but most pilots fly in areas where there are at least
some ground lights, moon or stars, and it is really not that hard
to tell if you are heading towards a mountain. On the other hand,
unlit towers are a real concern, regardless of whether it is day or
night, and this is why they get NOTAM'd.

The above is an excellent example of bad pre-flight planning. All
one has to do to avoid terrain, day, night, IMC, etc. is stay above
the altitude of any obstructions in the sector. As this is plainly
listed on every sectional, it is not a difficult task.

Neil

If you insist on flying above the MEF for each quadrant, you will not
be able to do any GA flying in the mountain states. This is the very
definition of mountain flying - ie flying below the peaks. Please
don't flame my responses as "examples of bad preflight planning" when
it is your reponse that is not adequately thought out.

I would consider a "go" decision to fly in the mountains at night to be
*exceptionally* bad pre-flight planning. Exceptions do not invalidate a
rule.

Why? I've flown on full-moon nights where it was very easy to see the
terrain. A new moon night is an entirely different animal, however. I
don't think your blanket statement above is true.



Full moon is nice to have, but you don't necessary need a full moon to
see the terrain. Pilots fly every day in the vast mountain areas of
this country at night under VFR without any problems. There are of
course hazards that come with any flying activity, but if you insist
on only flying the MEF altitude, you will have to avoid flying night
VFR in nearly a third of this country.

I have flown in the remote areas of the southwestern desert mountains
with no moon at all, and you can see the terrain just fine. You just
needs to be more pro-active when looking outside (dim cockpit lights,
proper dark adaptation) and exercise the usual mountain area
precautions.

Not flying the MEF is not bad preflight planning. In fact I would
claim that insisting on flying the MEF is poor planning because you
are wasting too much time and fuel to do something that could be done
far simpler by flying a lower altitude.

Consider a routine night VFR flight from Albuquerque to Santa Fe,
which is only 40 miles. MEF is 11,000 ft. Are you really going to
climb to 11000 ft (about 6000' AGL) to go 40 miles? If you do that, I
can assure you that you will get funny looks from pilots who live in
that area.