"Brash" wrote in message
u...
"Graham" wrote in message
...
I agree with Tas, i'm just a digger

I won't hold it against you, but you need more than a digger's eye view to
grasp some of this.


You need a gates eye view! lol.

but i do see what is getting used the
most on deployments in this new climate and its not F111 (great aircraft
tho) and really i dont see them or a a new type being used often or at
all.

There's a Chinese bloke named Sun Tzu, he wrote a book called "The Art of
War". In it, he says the only true victory in a war is to not have to
fight
it. Fighting it (and hopefully) then winning it, is a bit of a mug's game.
F111's (and their class of aircraft) are designed not to win wars by
fighting them but to win wars by preventing them. Show me an infantry
battalion that can do *that*.


Show me a country that has been deterred by Australian F-111s.

The other disadvantage of relying on Mr Tzus deterrence is that if the enemy
calls your bluff, 35 x F-111s are not going to last very long (let alone the
markedly smaller number we can crew) or the stocks of weapons for the a/c.

3 more Bns with supporting units (for example) would mean an enemy would
need to bring at least 9 more Bns to invade (actually more, but lets not
quibble), with the consequent increase in logistic support, transport,
shipping, escorts etc.

It raises the cost significantly more for the attacker than the defender.

See how deterrence works?

And those forces are available for other tasks when the threat to Aust is
not high, as well as increasing the most effective recruiting pool for
SASR - the ones who are most effective in the current, existing war.


What is being used allmost to the breaking point is us (diggers) and our
equipment.

And you haven't even been in a proper war yet. Makes you worry, doesn't
it?


Certainly when money is being spent on a/c that Aust hasn't used and won't
use.

Have they put EW on them that would let them risk it on real world ops yet?

Has the interim jammer even made it to the plane yet?


This is where our limited budget neads to go.

Can't agree with that. If we do it your way, we'll end up with an ADF that
will actually have to defend Australia. Sun Tzu wouldn't approve.


Or we can keep putting money into a/c that soak up resources, but are of no
use dealing with the threats we face.


Truely I cant sea a situation where we will need the long range of the
111
to defend Aus, who is willing or wants to have a go at us?

I guess you haven't read the paper lately.



Who has the capability that is more threatened by F-111s than SASR?


I just dont see
anyone out there who realy would have a go.

Wake up................. the rag-heads are on our case right now. If the
Intel revealed a al-Q or JI camp someplace that we couldn't openly get at,
wouldn't it makes sense to go in and bomb said camp with a plane that fly
across countries and avoid radar detection, hit the camp, and make it back
to international airspace without needing AAR 4 or 5 times?


Or to hit it covertly with SASR and recover intelligence as well.

Or pass the info onto our allies who have the ability to hit it with a
proper strike package rather than a half arsed attempt.


The F111s are great but can we aford them now (old) and what is needed?
ie
look at what is being used. We just dont have the $ for every thing we
need.

We would if we didn't waste millions on arts festivals for lefty ******s.

Spend the $ where its needed is what i say.

Spend the money where it will give us the most strategic value, I say.

Which may not be the F-111 given the limited need for long ranged strike and
the disproportionate amount of funding the F-111 soaks up.