"Matt A.00 01 is Matthew Ackerman" wrote in message ...
Arie Kazachin wrote:
In message - "Matt A.00 01 is
Matthew Ackerman" writes:
Arie Kazachin wrote:
[self snip. I know what I wrote]
The IDF intelegence deny that happened as the CIA asked them not to
disclose it. The world was afraid that Nixon had gone off the deep
end and would use SAC Bombers already airborn 24 hours a day and
fire the misiles in the Silos at the Russians as he warned them he
would if they did what you say. There is no declasified information
on Russian Pilots flying missions for the Arab side to this day.
There are of course the rhumors that it happened but no IAF pilot,
no Arab Pilot, and no Soviet Pilot has come forward about such to
this day. Stop inventing stories and reporting unprovable things.
Bottom
[snip. Lost patience to correct what's below after the line above. ]
Despite your baseless claims, it had LONG SINCE beed declassified and
appeared in books and papers. The book "The sky is not the limit" had
been printed in 1990 and it includes this battle description, so the
declassification came before 1990. Out of the 5 downed MiG-21s 3 were
downed by Mirage-IIICJ and two by F-4E. The pilots of Mirages we
Asher Snir, "Avik", Yiftah Spector and the pilots of F-4Es we
Aviem Sela and Avihu Ben-Nun. Find the pilots and ask them :-)
or do some "googling". You'll also probably get it at
"http://www.iaf.org.il/" somewhere under "history". Unfortunately I
can't access it at home - the site designers so heavily "optimized
for MS IE" that my Netscape can't show it correctly.
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Where did it say the downed Mig Pilots were Soviets.
I found it for you.
This is what was written in the old IAF site:
http://www.iaf.org.il/iaf/doa_iis.dl...3.3.6.3.3.html
One of the best known dogfights of the Israeli-Egyptian War of
Attrition was the encounter with MiG-21's flown by Soviet pilots. On
the afternoon hours of June 30th 1970, Israeli Phantoms attacked an
Egyptian radar installation at Suhuna, near the Gulf of Suez, with
other Phantoms and Mirages providing air cover. Soon enough, 6
quartets of Egyptian MiG-21's, flown by Soviet pilots, were scrambled
against the Israelis. In a matter of seconds, the scene was that of a
massive air brawl, which resulted in 5 MiG's being shot down - 3 by
Mirages and 2 by Phantoms
-
Last week the IAF launched a new site and at least for now there isn't
an English section in it.
Here you can find confirmation for the downed soveit pilots story (in
Hebrew):
http://www.iaf.org.il/Templates/Airc...ntPageNumber=2
http://www.iaf.org.il/Templates/Airc...ntPageNumber=2
That was the issue
that you posed and not what planes were involved. Is that why you simply
snipped out your previous words and said you knew what you posted. Should I
put back those quotes I retain the posts I download for the highest number
of days one can enter in that option on OE, I think that is 9,999 days. My
sent copies of all posts is automaticaly kept and I could find it there as
well till I decide it is too old to bother keeping usually about 2 years for
most posts and 3 for business emails sent out from here. I Also if I deem
it important enough flag the sent message and my cleanup is done by a 2
rules in OE.
Rule Sent CLean 1: In SENT folder if Message is flagged Stop executing
message rules.
Rule Sent CLean 2: In SENT folder if message older than 742 days Delete
Message stop executing rules.
Real easy to keep long enough and self clean every time I run OE. So I
unlike you do know what I responded to and you seem to forgotten.
As to 1990 My MS is is Comp Sci, but I hold an associates in Visual arts (NY
School of Vissual Arts) and a BA in History. Every professor would have
called 1990 still recently. The book was written and published (I do have a
copy of it) in 1990, the source is documented and if you check the
documentation out, the second step of researching a topic. That is one
reads it in a footnoted or endnoted source and then goes to the source that
the author used. You would find it was infact declasified only the prior
year 1989. A source is in Historical Terms considered new or recent till it
has had 20 years of reviewing for any mistakes by other historians. Now
that would take that off the "recently" list in 2009 not before as I was
taught.
There are books out on the Battle of Britain written 10 years after the war
using documents that were declasified rigfht after the War. Later many
mistakes as to pertant facts still came out that proved the conculusions of
those Historians wrong. I.E. the exact fighter capacity of the RAF at the
time of the Munich Conference. The first set of documents indicated 20
times the number of fighters then were really there and usefull. That
document came out just after the end of the war. 15 years later a military
historian after talking with mechanics at various air fields at that time,
found a flaw in how the numbers were generated. The document counted old WW
I Biplanes and unarmed trainers as if they were viable fighters. Planes
being scrapped at that time were also counted by the orders of the Air
Marshal of the time. He believed their were Nazi Agents that had access to
the documents and wanted them to think Britain was a lot better armed and
ready than it was.
That is why any good historian will 'think of anything available for less
than 20 years as recent. Real good researching Historians usually leave
anything of the last 20 years as "current events" as it is too knew to
uncover the historical parts of it other then at the most trivial levels.' -
Dr. Buchsbaumb U. Of Prague and Pace University after 1969.
I used to have some of his books and attended 3 of his classes. He escaped
from Hiltler and worked in British Intellegence during WWII and returned to
his home in 1945 taught at Prague and during that famous spring of freedom
published 2 books he had hidden from the Communists then as they fell to the
Warsaw Pack was away on a lecture in London. He and his wife stayed out of
that country and came to the USA. Apon my return and finishing Physical
Rehab for the wounds in action in '67 I attended that school (Pace U) at
their Pleasantville Campus (Westchester County NY) where he was teaching.
He was one of my proffessors and my advisor. He gave "F" on papers that had
too many sources under 20 years old. No topic that came into being during
that 20 year window was ever accepted.
I will abide by his definition of recent not yours, thank you.
--
MattA
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