Quant wrote:
"Matt A.00 01 is Matthew Ackerman" wrote in
message ...
Arie Kazachin wrote:
In message - "Matt A.00 01 is
Matthew Ackerman" writes:
Arie Kazachin wrote:
[self snip. I know what I wrote]
The IDF intelegence deny that happened as the CIA asked them not to
disclose it. The world was afraid that Nixon had gone off the deep
end and would use SAC Bombers already airborn 24 hours a day and
fire the misiles in the Silos at the Russians as he warned them he
would if they did what you say. There is no declasified
information on Russian Pilots flying missions for the Arab side to
this day. There are of course the rhumors that it happened but no
IAF pilot, no Arab Pilot, and no Soviet Pilot has come forward
about such to this day. Stop inventing stories and reporting
unprovable things. Bottom
[snip. Lost patience to correct what's below after the line above. ]
Despite your baseless claims, it had LONG SINCE beed declassified
and appeared in books and papers. The book "The sky is not the
limit" had been printed in 1990 and it includes this battle
description, so the declassification came before 1990. Out of the 5
downed MiG-21s 3 were downed by Mirage-IIICJ and two by F-4E. The
pilots of Mirages we Asher Snir, "Avik", Yiftah Spector and the
pilots of F-4Es we Aviem Sela and Avihu Ben-Nun. Find the pilots
and ask them :-) or do some "googling". You'll also probably get
it at "http://www.iaf.org.il/" somewhere under "history".
Unfortunately I can't access it at home - the site designers so
heavily "optimized for MS IE" that my Netscape can't show it
correctly.
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Where did it say the downed Mig Pilots were Soviets.
I found it for you.
This is what was written in the old IAF site:
http://www.iaf.org.il/iaf/doa_iis.dl...3.3.6.3.3.html
One of the best known dogfights of the Israeli-Egyptian War of
Attrition was the encounter with MiG-21's flown by Soviet pilots. On
the afternoon hours of June 30th 1970, Israeli Phantoms attacked an
Egyptian radar installation at Suhuna, near the Gulf of Suez, with
other Phantoms and Mirages providing air cover. Soon enough, 6
quartets of Egyptian MiG-21's, flown by Soviet pilots, were scrambled
against the Israelis. In a matter of seconds, the scene was that of a
massive air brawl, which resulted in 5 MiG's being shot down - 3 by
Mirages and 2 by Phantoms
-
Last week the IAF launched a new site and at least for now there isn't
an English section in it.
Here you can find confirmation for the downed soveit pilots story (in
Hebrew):
http://www.iaf.org.il/Templates/Airc...=HE&lobbyID=69
&folderID=78&docfolderID=184&docID=18175¤tPa geNumber=2
http://www.iaf.org.il/Templates/Airc...=HE&lobbyID=69
&folderID=78&docfolderID=184&docID=18173¤tPa geNumber=2
That was the issue
that you posed and not what planes were involved. Is that why you
simply snipped out your previous words and said you knew what you
posted. Should I put back those quotes I retain the posts I download
for the highest number of days one can enter in that option on OE, I
think that is 9,999 days. My sent copies of all posts is
automaticaly kept and I could find it there as well till I decide it
is too old to bother keeping usually about 2 years for most posts
and 3 for business emails sent out from here. I Also if I deem it
important enough flag the sent message and my cleanup is done by a 2
rules in OE.
Rule Sent CLean 1: In SENT folder if Message is flagged Stop
executing message rules.
Rule Sent CLean 2: In SENT folder if message older than 742 days
Delete Message stop executing rules.
Real easy to keep long enough and self clean every time I run OE.
So I unlike you do know what I responded to and you seem to
forgotten.
As to 1990 My MS is is Comp Sci, but I hold an associates in Visual
arts (NY School of Vissual Arts) and a BA in History. Every
professor would have called 1990 still recently. The book was
written and published (I do have a copy of it) in 1990, the source
is documented and if you check the documentation out, the second
step of researching a topic. That is one reads it in a footnoted or
endnoted source and then goes to the source that the author used.
You would find it was infact declasified only the prior year 1989.
A source is in Historical Terms considered new or recent till it has
had 20 years of reviewing for any mistakes by other historians. Now
that would take that off the "recently" list in 2009 not before as I
was taught.
There are books out on the Battle of Britain written 10 years after
the war using documents that were declasified rigfht after the War.
Later many mistakes as to pertant facts still came out that proved
the conculusions of those Historians wrong. I.E. the exact fighter
capacity of the RAF at the time of the Munich Conference. The first
set of documents indicated 20 times the number of fighters then were
really there and usefull. That document came out just after the
end of the war. 15 years later a military historian after talking
with mechanics at various air fields at that time, found a flaw in
how the numbers were generated. The document counted old WW I
Biplanes and unarmed trainers as if they were viable fighters.
Planes being scrapped at that time were also counted by the orders
of the Air Marshal of the time. He believed their were Nazi Agents
that had access to the documents and wanted them to think Britain
was a lot better armed and ready than it was.
That is why any good historian will 'think of anything available for
less than 20 years as recent. Real good researching Historians
usually leave anything of the last 20 years as "current events" as
it is too knew to uncover the historical parts of it other then at
the most trivial levels.' - Dr. Buchsbaumb U. Of Prague and Pace
University after 1969.
I used to have some of his books and attended 3 of his classes. He
escaped from Hiltler and worked in British Intellegence during WWII
and returned to his home in 1945 taught at Prague and during that
famous spring of freedom published 2 books he had hidden from the
Communists then as they fell to the Warsaw Pack was away on a
lecture in London. He and his wife stayed out of that country and
came to the USA. Apon my return and finishing Physical Rehab for
the wounds in action in '67 I attended that school (Pace U) at their
Pleasantville Campus (Westchester County NY) where he was teaching.
He was one of my proffessors and my advisor. He gave "F" on papers
that had too many sources under 20 years old. No topic that came
into being during that 20 year window was ever accepted.
I will abide by his definition of recent not yours, thank you.
--
MattA
?subject=HepatitusC-Objectives
Matt's Hep-C Story web pages are back at a home. No more drop down
ads to get in your way. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/matta00
Truth about Howard Aubrey AKA madyan67:
http://www.geocities.com/lord_haha_libeler/
So then by your own statement the IAF was supperior to the Soviets?
I may say I stand corrected on one thing though, I assumed that the
discussion was about the war time '67 and the War on Yom Kippur. If these
IAF pilots shot down Soviet Piloted Migs they were better pilots as the
Israelis fight most of their air to air battles with cannon fire not air to
air heat seeking rockets. That requires geting in close and out flying the
enemy planes and the pilots. Israel due to this found ways to reload the
Gpods of their planes much faster than any other nation had. The US sent
their ground crew instructors to study how Iseal in Yom Kippur war put US
planes refuled and reloaded back in the air in 15 minutes when the US ground
crews needed an hour. Israel during the wars often found themeselves with
more Combat ready pilots than planes. Actually it was always that way as
the planes meant buying planes and a lot of spare parts. Not every pilot
could fly 24 * 7 any way for the entire war. So while they refitted the
planes with more fuel, refilled Gpods, and other weapons used up, they often
changed pilots allowing the pilot that already flew 1 to 5 missions to get
some rest and a fresh rested pilot took his place. At the start of the '67
war it was fairly well known that for every 5 planes they had 7 pilots.
Because they always had fewer planes then the Arabs they had to have better
pilots.
Now you indicate they outclassed the Soviets who would have sent their best
in not their worst.
LOL to the argument that the IDF was not the best.
--
MattA
?subject=HepatitusC-Objectives
Matt's Hep-C Story web pages are back at a home. No more drop down ads
to get in your way.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/matta00
Truth about Howard Aubrey AKA madyan67:
http://www.geocities.com/lord_haha_libeler/