"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:48:58 -0700, "Al G"
wrote:

Obviously the 172H was certified to fly without flaps, as that is the
normal
operating mode. The G's allowed are higher without flaps, so it must be
safer, right? Many of the tests for certification were done ONLY with
flaps
up. This aircraft has no KOEL, nor does the limitations section of the
owners handbook refer to flaps. I can understand the requirement when
operating in a manner that requires them, say over an obstacle. In that
case
your "Operations" require them. However, I do not see how operating with
flaps up and un-available violates any portion of the type certificate,
and
therefore does not make this aircraft un-airworthy.

And for a H model where there is aparantly no limitation to the
contrary it likely doesn't. The point here is that at least in the R,
S, and T NAV III 172/182 models there *IS* a specific limitation that
for all intents and purposes requires the flap system be operable. The
point here is that people should check their own aircraft's POH to
make sure they are in compliance with the limitations when they have
inoperative equipment, regardless of what equipment is inop.


Agreed.


If an aircraft is certified VFR/IFR, and a vacuum pump goes south, you can
operate it VFR without a ferry permit, right? The attitude indicator is
not
part of VFR certification. Do you need a "Special Certificate" to fly
home?

If it's not required explicitly in part 91, the next question that
needs an answer is wheter the item is listed as R or S in the KOEL or
eqipment list? If it's listed as required equipment in the KOEL or
equipment list then I postulate that yes, in fact, you either need to
fix it, or you do need a special cert to fly home if that item is
inopearive. It can and has been demonstrated to be different from
range of aircraft to range of aircraft, even in the same generic model
(I.E. Nav II or Nav III equipped 182T), and whatever POH is in that
specific airframe is what's required to be adhered to.

Agreed.

So the OP was flying a C-177RG, I guess it depends on the year, and what is
in the KOEL if applicable.

Al G