On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:59:36 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:39:45 GMT, Buzzer wrote:


"Hamfisted" crew from Ubon in early 1967 blew a pod off a pylon over
North Vietnam.

What you just wrote makes no sense. If the crew was "ham-fisted" then
they over-G'd or "pulled" the pod off. If they "blew" the pod, that
would mean jettisoned by cart-firing. Were they "ham-index-fingered"
in actuating the toggle switch?

Makes sense to me if you hadn't clipped what Mike wrote and I replied
to..

"On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:49:34 GMT, Mike Marron
wrote:

Why y'all respond to the dreaded "tarv troll" is beyond me!
In any event, Chad, you're absolutely correct that flightline troops
make mistakes. But the good folks in St. Louis at the McDonnell
Douglas plant have a few scruples to speak of and you can rest
assurred that they designed the F-4's ECM pod with hamfisted
pilots and/or hairy-assed line mechanics in mind.

"Hamfisted" crew from Ubon in early 1967 blew a pod off a pylon over
North Vietnam."

Initial installation of the pods at Korat in late Oct. of '66 when
they were highly classified was uncarted, so "blowing" a pod wasn't an
option. And, considering the relatively minimal size and weight,
wouldn't have been worth the time necessary to find the toggle, break
the safety wire, flip the safety cover, establish the necessary
jettison parameters and then "blow."

THEY WERE CARTED AT UBON FOR BOLO and a short time afterwards..
I have no idea what went on in the cockpit. The crews were briefed to
not dump that station. Off it went.. You want to know what happened
ask Olds. I am sure he will remember exactly.

And a pod fell off a pylon on a plane taking off at Ubon shortly after
that. No cause was found. The "hairy-assed" line mechanics that loaded
the pod that day were never talked to or questioned about it.

If the pod "fell off" then an investigation occurred. The maintenance
supervisor that signed the AFTO-781 on the install was undoubtedly
questioned. Are you speaking of facts or stories you heard?

Maintenance supervisor? You're kidding right? How about a three
striper and a couple two stripers. Guess who had three stripes in 1967
Ed? Guess who loaded the pod Ed?

Pods were carried for years hanging from pylons and even the bottom
rack on MERs.

Pods were carried on the F-4 on inboard pylons and on the F-105 on
outboard pylons.

Pretty clear cut blanket statement covering the Vietnam war period.
Was that right or left inboard? Never on the right outer pylon in
place of the tank?

I never saw one carried on a TER or MER. Interposing
a secondary rack, particularly one without aircraft power available
(except for the RAT-driven QRC-160) would be useless.

You left SEA in Nov 1966 right? You returned in 1973?
You missed out on a lot of things.

F-4C Ubon early 1967
You probably never saw a QRC-160/ALQ-71 pod with external power
running out of the pylon, down around the pod, and connected to the
bottom access cover of the pod just behind the rat. We drilled the
covers, added a 3 phase plug, which ran to another plug that the
normal rat power connected to. One of those short term fixes for
frozen rats before we got in enough dummy nose cones. The cable was
held onto the pod with a couple cable clamps that were put on during
pod upload. Yep. Sure enough. Three phase power wires hanging out in
the wind held on with a couple clamps. Scary isn't it..

Did the same thing with the TER/MER. They were just another rack to me
and I have no idea which one it was. When the pod, ALQ-160/ALQ-71 was
loaded the antenna were just a few inches off the concrete. It was a
real pain to load since it was down so low. Most of the time we just
lifted them in place with two people. We finally made up another
adapter to hold the pod on the jammer forks so we could get it under
the rack. Same method for three phase power. Clamped the cables in a
couple places on the rack and pod.

In '72 and for all the years I carried ALQ-119s in Europe, we carried
ECM pods in a Sparrow well on the F-4.

I left SEA in Sep 70 from Korat and the F-4E. I don't remember the
pods being in the Sparrow wells at that time. Biggest pod I remember
at that time was the ALQ-101 and I have no idea what happened to them.
I remember seeing them in the storage room grounded because the
destruct packages were going off during maintenace, but they just are
gone from memory after that. Most of the in shop pod work was ALQ-87
and the ALQ-71 bench was basically gathering dust..

Ever see the two "little" hooks in the pylon that hold bombs and pods
to the pylons?

Yep, seen a lot of those little hooks. If they could hold an M-118
(3000 pound GP bomb) at 4 G, I've gotta think they could retain an ECM
pod at a lot more G.

When we changed over the hardbacks (the mounts that held the lugs that
the pylon hooks go around) on the pods from the F-105 to the F-4 for
BOLO I was amazed at how small the F-105 mounts and lugs were. It was
a stretch to think they were flying pods with those dinky little
lugs..

Take into consideration that bombs and center tanks were dropped to
clean an aircraft up so it could maneuver better. But that pod hung in
there way out from the centerline.

The C/L tank, particularly on AF F-4s was a poorly engineered piece of
dreck.

The APR-25 analyzer was up inside above the center tank on the F-4C.
They basically refused to lower a tank for us to get to the thing. Too
many problems trying to get it to seal and all that. At least that was
their story. Think it was door 22 that was lowered onto the tank and
then we had to reach way the heck up in there to get the cables and
bolts loose. Couldn't reach and see at the same time so it was all
done by feel.

Bombs were lots of weight and lots of drag. ECM pods, on the
other hand were light, small, low drag and generally uncarted. And, if
you were being attacked by a MiG with radar, AKA MiG-21 or -19, you
might like to be throwing some electrons his way.

Korat and Ubon up to 1970 when I was there had no I band pods. All set
up for SAM and AAA..