Jim Logajan wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote:
On the other hand, one can buy a ready-to-fly S-LSA Savannah but not
a CH-701, as far as I know. ICP has made some good business
decisions on the Savannah while Zenith appears to have done little
to improve the 701 kit for years - until the Savannah came out.

Check out the new AMD Patriot that was announced at OSH. It is the
next generation 701. Please note though that now kit or plans were
announced for it. That's probably because of the way the 701 plans
were copied.

I've Googled for info on the Patriot and gone to AMD's web site and
can't find any formal mention of it. Nor any mention on any news
sites covering OSH. Closest I could find is a news item from 2005 on
Heintz working on a "CH 750" S-LSA model, which may be AMD's Patriot:

http://www.zenithair.com/news/ch750.html



Here's a link with a photo. http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com/


I don't know when the Savannah came out. But the 2001 increase in GW
was a pretty significant improvement and Zenith has continued to
increase the quality of thier kits since I've began dealing with them
in 2002. Leet me ask you this. If Piper hadn't improved the wing on
the Cherokee would that have given Cessna the right to copy it and
put a better wing on it?

So long as no trademarks, patents, or copyrights are violated I don't
think there is any legal protection for designs per se. So if none of
the above apply, then the answer to your question is "yes." The
ethical, moral, and marketing consequences are, no doubt, sometimes
less charitable to such actions.


The plans for the 701 are copyrighted. Before a copy of those plans go out
they buyer signs an agreement that they will not copy the plans and that
only one aircraft will be built. So either ICP broke that agreement and the
copyright that was on the plans or they used a bootleg copy of the plans.




This all relates to Denny's point: the plane has to be reasonably
priced (he set $45k) and ready-to-fly. Nothing from Zenith (or AMD)
comes close to that price point. The Savannah is the closest I can
find to matching his requirements - but at $65k still ~50% too
pricey. The AMD Zodiac XL comes in at $80k.

Yes and the new Zenith Patriot LSA will be RTF at about $100K as
well. That ought to tell you something. How can one company produce
an aircraft that much cheaper than all the rest? You can't blame USA
labor costs because some of those $80K-$100K planes are coming out of
places like the Czech Republic.

I don't see $65k as being terribly cheaper than all the rest. The
Jabiru Calypso-SP is a RTF composite plane that starts at $70k and it
is built in Australia (I think). North American Sport Aviation sells
the Savage RTF starting at $54k (built in the U.S. I believe). And I
believe the EuroFox is available RTF starting around $60k.

The Calypso starts the but I'd bet the majority that are sold are sold with
a a lot of the extras. Plus Jabiru are using an engine that they build
themselves so there is a little more room for profit.