ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Aircrew casualities
From: Guy Alcala
Date: 10/3/03 11:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

snip

Just curious. Did Freeman actually fly missions with the 8th?

Nope, he was an English kid who lived near one of the bomber bases during
the war, and spent a lot of time hanging out there (the ground crews let
him). Since then he's become unquestionably the foremost historian of the
8th AF, although his aviation interest extend somewhat beyond that -- do a
google or amazon.com search on Roger A. Freeman. ISTR that he's also
involved in the 2nd Air Division Memorial Library in Norwich, England -

http://www.2ndair.org.uk/new%20pages/library.htm

Guy


In a previous post you quoted Freeman on how parachutes were handled in the
eigth. The descriptions you gave were in direct contradiction to my experiences
in the 9th. I never flew with the 8th, so I won't comment, but the idea that
aircrews flew with their harnesse and chutes off and, "had to go look for them
before bailing out" defies logic as well as my expereinces. We flew with our
chutes on for the full length of the missions. Would never think of flying
otherwise. That is why I asked if he actually flew missions with the 8th. It is
interesting to find out he never did.

You'll note that he describes the use of chutes from 1942 on, while equipment was
constantly changing. By 1944, much practical experience had been gained, equipment
and techniques modified, etc., all of which he noted. I've read numerous accounts
by 8th AF bomber crews dexcribing having to attach chutes before they can bail
out. As has Freeman, as well as him having interviewed hundreds if not thousands
of aircrew over the years. And the quote you reference was taken from an 8th AF
study and questionnaire done in January 1943; what reason would the crews have to
lie about what they did?

I'd also point out that 8th AF missions were considerably longer than 9th AF ones,
and were also flown at high altitude on oxygen while wearing heavy clothing to
protect them from the sub-zero temperatures (the electric suits were very
unreliable prior to a redesign that only became available in 1944). Crews (even
those wearing the electric suits) also wore full sheepskin clothes over them in
case the suits failed, so bulk was more of an issue; moving around was very
fatiguing, especially when wearing flak suits as well. I don't know if the later
flak suits could be worn over parachutes, chest pack or otherwise, but it doesn't
appear that the earlier ones could be. Still doubt that they didn't normally wear
chutes? Here's some crew accounts, from the Regensburg/Schweinfurt mission, given
in interviews to Martin Middlebrook. I've edited them for length, with ellipsis
used to mark those sections:

[Tony Arcaro, pilot, 91st BG] "I decided that I had to order the crew to abandon
ship -- it was all that fuel I was worried about. . . . I put it on automatic and
managed to get my chest pack on. Then I dove right from the flight deck out
through the front hatch -- right through the fire. I cleared it just like a
champion diver; I never even bumped the side."

[An anonymous bombardier, presumably to spare the feelings of any family members of
the pilot and co-pilot who might read it]:

"Then I poked my head up into the cockpit. The top turret gunner was all right; he
was getting out of his turret. I could only see the backs of the two pilot's seats
and all I could see was that they were both immobile. The instruments were all
shot away, hit from the front and blown inwards. . . . "

"The top turret gunner said, 'Let's get out of here.' I crawled back to the nose
and got my chest parachute and told the navigator we had got to go. For some
reason I had always had a fear of parachuting and often said that I would never do
it but, when the time came, I never gave it a second thought." [Middlebrook notes
that both pilots had been decapitated by the cannon rounds that had hit the
cockpit]

[An anonymous navigator, for similar reasons as that above] "I turned away from my
gun, picked up my parachute from the bench and put it on. . . ."

[2nd Lt. Walter Brown, Bombardier, 91st BG] ". . . The whole wing just flopped off
outside Number 2 engine and that was it. No one really had much chance to get a
parachute on. I had seen two planes collide over England and a good buddy of mine
was the only one to get out. He'd been wearing a back-pack so I always wore one
after that -- the only one in the crew to do so. The navigator was at his table
and was able to reach out and grab his chest-pack quickly. He only got one of the
clips fastened when the centrifugal force pinned us both to the floor. He was
being throttled by his oxygen tube but I was able to reach up and unplug it from
the wall for him. I never heard a word from or had a chance to see the others from
beginning to end."

"I didn't realize we were spinning -- you lose the horizon and you have no idea
what position you are in -- but my pal in another a/c told me that that we made
three or three and a half turns and then the plane disintegrated. I don't know
whether there was an explosion or not; centrifugal force can be enough to tear a
plane apart. All I know is that I went flying out the plexiglass window. The
glass wasn't there but the nose gun was and I hit it with my back. I'm sure that
would have killed me if I hadn't had the back parachute pack on. I reckon that
backpack saved my life twice." [The only other survivor of this crew was the
navigator he mentioned, 2nd Lt. Edgar Yelle]

Convinced? Now let's jump forward from August 17th, 1943, to April 7th, 1945.
This is from an account of his 34th mission by 2nd Lt. Walter F. Hughes, in his
self-published book "A Bomber Pilot in World War II." Hughes flew B-24s in the
93rd BG:

"543 F, the ship we were assigned had a standard soft pilot's seat. The pilots
were protected by a flak curtain which hung from the ceiling about a foot behind
the seats. When I checked the plane I found that some flak-happy pilot had lined
the seat and back with several layers of flak vests. I hadn't seen that done
before so I shrugged my shoulders and replaced the cushions. Old pilots liked this
seat because they could wear a backpack parachute while flying, whereas with the
other seat, a box made of armor plate, the pilots could not get out with a
parachute on. In planes with that seat, the parchute was hung on a hook on the
flight deck out of the pilot's reach. If a plane was spinning, or there was fire
on the flight deck, there was no way a pilot could get to his parachute. He could
squeeze out the pilot's window, but to no purpose without a chute. . . ."

The rest of his account doesn't describe a bailout; rather, a fighter attack that
caused a cannon shell to penetrate the armor next to him and explode against the
flak curtain behind him, wounding the co-pilot and radio operator, and "The flak
vests lining the seat were absolutely chewed to pieces. Had they not been there, my
backside would have been full of holes, big ones." So it's a tradeoff. The
armored seat undoubtedly provided better protection than the flak suits, but made
it harder to bail out in certain conditions.

Guy