On 14 Oct 2003 08:52:39 -0700, robert arndt wrote:

How do you figure that since Israel treats its Arabs/Palestinians
better than any of the oil-rich regimes in the region,

Y'know I really do find it amusing some of the idiotic crap that
appologists for Israel's policies come up with. If the best thing
you can say about Israel's human rights record is that it's better
than countries like Saudi Arabia, that speaks for itself.

BTW, I'm a very non-violent person, I've killed less people than
Jack the Ripper.

which
ironically promote a Palestinian state but refuse to take any
Palestinians into their own rich kingdoms. BTW, the "innnocent
civilians" you mention are 9 chances out of 10 shooting at Israelis
from their homes, hosting Hamas or other terrorists, or chanting
"death to Israel".

Evidently you are against freedom of speech.

Only to confirmed jews and assumed sympathisers. Not much freedom
there if you belong to the wrong ethnic group.
Not that I'm not even implying the neighbouring nations are nice guys.

Again, how can you reach that conclusion when Israel has bent over
backwards trying to make the distinction between peaceful Palestinians
and those that support terror?

Ha ha ha. So when Israelis and Palestinians sign an accord in
Geneva, The Israeli Government's only response is to rubbish the
proposals, and repeat their old line that there are no Palestinians
to negotiate with and that Israel should continue to create "facts
on the ground" by building more settlements in its campaign to gain
_Lebensraum_ by stealing Arab land. And then they are surprised when
the palestinians fight back.

Everytime Israel relaxes restrictions
and makes an effort to move forward in negotiations...

The current Israeli govmt isn't interested in negotiations.

BAM!!!...
another suicide bombing

Welcomed by Sharon as it increases his electoral support and gives
him a pretext to kill and oppress Palestinians, continue to build
settlements, etc.

(which is of course orchestrated from Yasser
Arafat himself and his terror connections).

As if you'd know.

And how can Israel
negotiate when nations like Syria, Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia are
pouring in funds to the terrorists or tunneling in weapons to them?

A reasonable solution would be:

1. Israel to withdraw to pre 1967 war borders; or possibly an agreed
border that exchanges land on one side for land on the other

2. Palestinians to give up right of return

3. Palestinian state to be disarmed, its security (both against
Palestinian group like Hamas, and Israeli invasion) guaranteed by
foreign soldiers and police

4. Palestinians to get economic support from EU; part of support is
withdrawn whenever Palestinian groups attack Israel

5. Israel to continue to get economic support from USA; part of
support is withdrawn whenever Israeli groups attack Palestine

(The point of these last two provisions is to discourage both
societies from aggressive action).

6. both Israel and Palestine offered eventual membership of the EU,
if they want it and fulfil human rights conditions for membership

The Israelis have a genuine right to self-preservation

Yes they do. They don't have a right to annex terrotiy occupied in
war.

and if that
means an Apaches fires into a crowd to take out a Hamas leader- too
bad.

I'm sure it is to you, but then for racists like you, Arabs are
only _Untermensch_ who deserve to be killed.


Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Yasser
Arafat have funded and carried out terrorist attacks against Israel
and the West for decades. Israel has stood strong and retaliated. In
extreme cases Israel has carried out pre-emptive attacks that only did
good (like the Osirak reactor and killing Gerald Bull).

So when Muslims kill people, that's bad, but when Israel does the
same things that's good, eh? You confirm that you are a racist
scumbag. Frankly, this world would be a better place if people like
you didn't exist.

Had they not
then Iraq would have had a bomb by 1991 and a Supergun to fire it
against Israel or coalition troops. Israel is not the aggressor here

So occupying Palestine and parts of Syria isn't aggression? I
suppose in your mind the Israelis can do no wrong.

but they refuse to be helpless victims of terror. That's why the US
supports Israel.

Ha ha ha. No, idiot, its because of internal US politics -- it's
pandering to the fundamentalist Christian voter and the Jewish
vote.

As far as an Israeli theocracy go, that is nonsense. It is true that
Israel allows aliya from any nation where Jews want to leave (Russia,
Argentina, Ethiopia, etc...) but that does not in any way interfere
with the priviliges that Arab Israelis get,

Which don't include living where they want to. There is much
racist sentiment in Israel; is that why you like the place so much?

which is greater than in
any Arab nation. The second Intifada, however, has had grave
consequences for the Palestinian people whose leader Yasser Arafat has
put in peril by his unwillingness to truly seek peace and negotiate
for an end to the conflict.

No disagreement from me there -- Arafat is basically a waste of
space. Perhaps him and Sharon should be locked in the same prison
cell.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(My real email address would be if you added 275
to it and reversed the last two letters).