"Mike the Strike" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Nov 11, 8:20 am, Scott wrote:
doesn't the transponder exception for aircraft manufactured without an
electrical system apply (or are you saying that they can't fly inside
the Class B airspace)?

Scott

In general, gliders have exemption to fly without a transponder under
a mode C veil up to 10,000 feet, but the lowered class B around
Phoenix overrides that.

There is a letter of agreement available between local FBOs and the
Arizona Soaring Association that would permit gliders to again operate
in this 1000 feet of airspace, but to my knowledge, no one has signed
it.

Mike..
Do you mean FSDO, not FBO..
Unless the FBOs have signed the LOA with the local FSDO and ATC facilities
and they are the responsible party in the LOA.

Everyone should really read FAR91.215 in regards to transponder requirements
and exemptions within the 30nm Mode C veil around Class B airports. It
applies to everyone, the non- transponder exemptions are for those without
engine driven electric generating capability.

91.215 holds everyone without a transponder capability (J-3 Cubs, gliders,
balloons or other antique no electrical system aircraft to remain below
10,000ftMSL OR the Ceiling of the Associated CLASS B airspace.. WHICH EVER
IS LOWER.

We have the same situation in the Las Vegas Area, the Class B only goes to
9,000MSL. Our soaring club holds the letter of agreement with local ATC,
FSDO and the Western FAA District office in SFO. The LOA allows
non-transponder gliders to climb between 9-10K MSL in certain designated
climb windows. The window in use is dependent on the landing runway at
McCarran (Class B airport).

Install a transponder, and use it, and the 91.215 9K MSL altitude
restriction goes away.
But now the shoe is on the other foot, and hotly debated in the past. If you
have a transponder it must be powered on, draining batteries, whether or not
you plan to go above 9K MSL. (91.215(c))

BT