Bill Kambic wrote:
:On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:24:32 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
::It's also worth noting that during the Soviet era readiness rates were
::not all that "red hot" even in some elite units. That's one reason
::why they always built fairly simply and in large quantities. I don't
::know if this will change or not.
::
:
:And those 'large quantities just evaporated with the fall of the
:Soviet Union...
:
:Pish posh. They're sitting around, rusting. That's make them
:"unavailable presently." It does not equal "evaporation." At least
:not 'till they are beyond reclamation.
:
One more time. Airplanes don't 'rust'.
::Why don't you tell us about internal organization of those regiments?
::
:
:Why don't you (or Tanky) tell us about just what forces you think
:they'll oppose and eliminate all this 'changing the story'?
:
:You made a claim, you get to substantiate it. I don't have the
:interest or the time to do your research for you.
:
No, dear boy. I'm asking you and Tanky to substantiate YOUR claims. I
suspect I know more about this than either of you and certainly have
no interest or time to do your research for you.
:Your belief seems to be that the US can fight at 4,000 miles more
:effectively than the Russians can at 40.
:
:Sorry, but I just don't believe it.
:
:Put that way, neither do I.
:
But that's the claim being made, so you appear to be somewhat
confused.
::SSNs make great minelayers. So do some long range aircraft (but with
::some pretty obvious limitations).
::
:
:And when the other guy notices you mining international waters?
:
:With aircraft he likely will (buy maybe not). With SSNs he likely
:won't (but maybe will).
:
Which still doesn't address the question.
::I always thought it was a sign of natural intelligence when people
::snipped the needless redundancies from their posts.
::
:
:So you don't read any of Tankfixer's maunderings?
:
:Yes...once.
:
Perhaps you should read them again and figure out just what it is that
you're supporting here.
::Clearly the Russian Republic under Putin aspires to a greater world
::role, not unlike the Tsars of old. Can they do it? They've got the
::money and it looks like they've got the will. Putin is the Collosus
:
f Russian politics (at least for now) and system is clearly dancing
::to his tune. But politicians come and go (even dictators). Building
::a navy is very different from building an army or airforce. They
::certainly CAN do it; whether or not there is a national (as opposed to
::a person) long term agenda to do it is an open question.
::
:
:Not the issue under discussion. Tanky thinks a navy is useless to
:Russia because we can bottle it up. Geography seems to disagree, so
:he keeps changing his story.
:
:History is on his side; the Russian Navy has never been a substantial
:factor for them (except maybe the battleship POTEMPKIN (SP) or some
:units during Russian Revolution). The one time they did try a big op
:they got whupped at Tsushima (sp). During the Cold War ADM Gorshakov
:had enough "juice" to get the state to spring for a real, blue water
:navy but I don't see anybody playing that role at present (although
:someone could emerge).
:
History has nothing to do with capability. There is a big difference
between not doing something and not being able to do something. Tanky
is arguing the latter.
:They could go back to a big sub fleet again and that would have some
:intersting consequences for us (S-4A, anyone?).
Already going to have P-8s.
:
:The Russians right now are sitting on a mountain of petro dollars.
:They look like they're willing to spend a bunch on re-establishing a
:naval presence beyond the littoral waters. How much or for how long
:is open to question. Geography does not favor them as a naval power,
:but it may be less of an issue that it used to be (given higher sea
:temps and less ice in ports).
It's not even an issue of geography. Do they have any NEED to be a
naval power? Wanting a carrier force (where this started) indicates a
desire for power projection (which would be a Russian interest). It
doesn't necessarily indicate a desire or a need for a balanced navy.
:
:Only Putin knows for sure what he'll likely do in this arena.
:
He probably doesn't know, either.
--
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night
to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
-- George Orwell