In article ,
Dave wrote:

Thanks Dale!

Whatta great link! (and a great read)

All versions are there, but the guys/ airplanes who could NOT turn
with them did not file reports afterward..

There are many variables in a turn fight, and although turn radius is
initially important, the ability to retain ENERGY in a turn fight
rapidly becomes the determining factor in retaining what advantage
you may have started with. So... the LONGER the fight, the
plane/pilot that can, 1 - handle the "G"s, and 2- RETAIN energy has
the best chance to win the engagement.


When people talk of "favs" of fighters, not enough credit is often
given to the pilots who made them so..

I have had (and still have) the great privilage of speaking with one
who was there, now quite elderly of course..

But he can easily put perspective on this and other matters of the
time.....

He flew Spits and Hurri's , but was well aquainted with the Stang
drivers who had a squad very close to them..

There is an old saying, "only a fool takes a knife to a gunfight"..
and they were careful not to "'Mix it up" in situations that were not
to their (plane or pilot) advantage. Underestimating either ,
according to him, was costly.

As defenders, the Stang was a poor choice. It was suicide to turn low
and slow with it. The Spit was in it's element as soon as the gear was
up, and, according to him, sometimes WHILE the gear was coming up. The
Stang was light on arms, (no cannons) , and you needed to get a lot
of hits to do serious damage, so you had to "out turn" your opponnent
for some time. The Stang also looses a lot of energy turning tight,
and had a tendency (with the laminar flow wing) to stop flying
suddenly.

The Spit, with the cannons, an early (and often "lucky", - according
to him) short burst on the mark, and the fight was over.

He claimed he could EASILY out turn the Stang, more so with the Mk5
Spit, which he liked the best. (they used to "compare" planes, - he
did not elaborate.. )

He said they left the high fights to the Stang drivers . The Spit
was " totally out of breath for fighting at high alt" (his words) and
was "the knife in the gunfight" above 15000 ft.

Command was constantly telling the Stang squads, DO NOT follow the
fight "down" .

"Pick the fight you can win" he says.. "If you don't have the
advantage, get away"....

He came home...

He is getting quite feeble now, but I was present a while back when he
kept a group of RC pilots spell bound for an hour....

There are not many still with us...

Dave

I wouldn't tell any 352FG guys that the Mustang wasn't a good defense
fighter...google January 1, 1945. G

Certainly a Spitfire is going to "outturn" a Mustang, it has a better
power to weight ratio.

As for the Mustangs "stop flying suddenly"...I don't buy it. I have a
whopping 1 hour of Mustang time but found that it warns you quite well
of the impending stall. Mustang pilots I've talked to say the same
thing.

I just wanted to point out that the Mustang can "dogfight". I
understand the dynamics of air to air combat (albeit all of my fights
have been a computer sim, the rules still apply - except you don't
actually bleed G) and believe it's the pilot that wins the fight, not
the airplane.

I'm traveling to Memphis next month to attend the 85th birthday bash of
a 307th FS, 31st FG Mustang pilot. It is wonderful to be able to talk
to the guys from WWII. I regret that I didn't start listening to them
sooner.

Dale