wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 10:13 am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

(1) The operator must receive an ATC clearance from the ATC facility
having
jurisdiction for that area before operating an aircraft in that area.


Not enough as I saw this.

Clearance on an arrival procedure does not clear you in Bravo. An
arrival procedure can be outside bravo. That area OUTSIDE bravo is
what you are cleared for, NOT cleared to enter Bravo.


Where did you see that?



What you say is like saying cleared for an approach is a clearance for
a landing. You know that's not right just as being cleared Cortez1
arrival is not a clearance into Las Vegas Bravo.


No, what I say is like saying an ATC clearance for a procedure that enters
Class B airspace issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that
area satisfies the clearance requirement for Class B airspace entry.



SHOW ME WHERE a clearance on an arrival procedure is a clearance to
enter Bravo and clearly states it. Better yet, show me a reference
that shows "exceptions to not having to hear the words cleared into
Bravo". I bet you can't.


SHOW ME WHERE hearing the words "cleared into Bravo" is required for entry
to Class B airspace. I bet you can't.


http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...3/aim0302.html


3.2.3 covers my position. Specifically An ATC clearance is required
for all aircraft to operate in the area. Class B airspace is not the
same area as an arrival procedure area, and you know this.


I see nothing in AIM para 3-2-3 that covers your position. Please specify
what you are referring to.



You must hear cleared into Bravo. A clearance on an arrival procedure
does not meet this requirement and you know this.


Where is it written that one must hear "cleared into Bravo"?



Until you provide a reference otherwise that clearly states a
clearance on an arrival procedure is clearance into Bravo (and that is
what you are saying) YOU ARE SIMPLY WRONG.


Why am I wrong? Is it because a clearance for the Cortez 1 arrival issued
by Las Vegas approach is not an ATC clearance? Is it because Las Vegas
approach is not the ATC facility having jurisdiction for the Las Vegas Class
B airspace?



You must hear the words cleared into Bravo.


Where is that requirement found?



I dont' know of any
exceptions nor have I came across any references that gives
exceptions. Provide references that gives exceptions.


Let's make a deal, you show me the requirement, then I'll show you the
exceptions to it.