After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, BUFDRVR
blurted out:

I already spelled that out for you. Possible chemical and biological weapons

**Possible** but, to date no "smoking gun" except for evidence of
plans. Compelling enough for US citizens...a plurality at least, but
not the same as Adlai Stevenson showing pictures of russian missiles
in Cuba.

and ties to international terrorists.

And while this situation is indeed different, for the sake of debate,
one could easily "connect the dots" with Mr Rumsfeld having had "ties"
to Saddam Hussein's regime. One can make an easy connection between
previous US administrations and supplying weapons to the Taliban back
in the day when the DRCPBs were still the major threat to world peace.

It was a combination we could not allow to continue and since
it was apparent the UN, nor anyone else was going to do
anything about it, we did.

Except for universal agreement that Saddam Hussein was/is a brutal SOB
and worthless human being, perhaps other avenues could have been
attempted...say like US actions vs Maummar Qaddafi back in the 80s, ie
specific targeting trying to decapitate Huusein & sons (short of
invading).

You quote perhaps one of the most corrupt Presidents the US had in the 20th
Century. Vietnam, Berlin, Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis, oh yeah
that JFK he was a saint. LOL.

Oh my...please JFK beats GWB in style, grace, integrity, combat
experience, combat wounds, education...and getting laid by the
contemporary sex goddess.

Vietnam was inherited from Eisenhower (yep DDE personally briefed JFK
that containment of communism in asia was predicated on stopping them
in Laos...yeah the war we didn't really fight), wasted effort. BTW
containment was plan of the day vs International Monolithic
(according to US experts) Communism. Enough blame to share with many
US Presidents

Berlin was extremely WELL handled and precipitated by Nikita closing
off access to Berlin (but you knew that).

BoP another inherited to plan and policy. Should have cancelled it but
trusted others.

Cuban Missile Crisis, wow big brass cajones.

The existance of the UN has not benifited US national security to a significant
enough degree for most Americans to really care for the organization.

To be fair, do you really think the UN exists for our security? Of
course you don't, it exists for everyones. There is absolutely ZERO
reason to expect the UN to rubber stamp everything any US president
wants to do.

Negative. Just my opinion, but I believe if the UN fails to assist in Iraq,
that public opinion will turn to the point of forcing the US to withdraw
*slowly* from the UN. As far as most Americans are concerned, the UN is at
best an irrelevent organization, at worst its an anti-US organization.

Hey we're all fickle. When the UN goes along with GWB everything is
copacetic. If UN segments (majority) are against us, the UN is
instantly irrelevant. Perhaps we should ask ourselves why don't they
agree with our actions.

The US is now spending way too much on TSA and screening for "bombs"
at high school football games in Iowa, but heck many of our citizens
think it's OK. I resent TSA screening when I go to work just to make
some paying customer feel like our government is actually doing
something productive on the home front. The costs both in money and
personal freedom don't justify the "benefit" IMO.

YMMV

juvat