Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in
:
We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185
Nice pic:
http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?id=536882887
&filename=phpOltUWB
.jpg
Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it
straight" when they land, like this guy did, show em this...
Bertie
I just sent this out this afternoon to our human factors people as
an example of how deeply a pilot has to fly into a problem before
realizing it isn't going to solve using existing control
authority. Absolutely amazing! This guy is on the way to a memo
from the Chief Pilot's office fairly soon I would imagine.
Glad they made it out of there.
Well, he doesn't appear to have made any effort towards putting the
wing down at all. Not his fault.He was obviously never taught how
to do a crosswind landing properly. You'd be amazed at how many
airline pilots beleive that this is the way to do it... Mostly,
they get away with it. The crosswind doesn't appear to be all that
bad. From the drift angle, I'd reckon the max compnenet to be under
thirty knots and steady. Well within the airplane's capability. He
wasn't realy in trouble until the flare.
Bertie
Bertie
I don't have the official wind figures, but I would make the wind
offset with gust factor well outside his capabilities.
Doesn't look like it to me. Most moderns are demonstrated at 40
knots. Even the older ones can do 30 or 35 with no problem, and
that;'s just the demonstrated. The 757 is easy, and I mean really
easy, in winds approaching 40, although it's easy to get a PIO going
with the ailerons in turbulence in it. If the other poster's info is
correct, it shouldn;t have come to what it did. I dont see any effort
on the pilot's part to put the right wing down at all.
Having said that, it's a 'bus and it might not have allowd the pilot
to do what he wanted to.
In any case, crossposting his wasn't to make the crw look foolish. I
just thought the video neatly illustrated the dynamics of a crosswind
landing gone wrong very nicely, whatever caused it. A lot of people
use a similar technique and, close to the limit, it will end up
looking pretty much like this...
Bertie
I'm sure your right. After all, you look at this stuff in heavies all
day long. I landed a DC8 once as a guest of the airline (a charter
op). Man, what a handful THAT thing was!! :-)
I read this guy's approach as bad from around the middle marker (or
where it would be) inbound. Looked like he flattened it out too high
which had to cost him some airspeed and maneuvering energy. I agree on
the wing. Didn't look good to me either.
No, looks good all the way to the runway as far as i can see, He seems to
be tracking the runway alright. One burios thing they do in modern busses
is to set the vref into the magic boxes and that commands a constant
groundspeed during the approach. Sounded crazy to me when I first heard of
it, but the way it works is that the airplane automatically bleeds off
speed as the wind diminishes during descent. even hand flown, the flight
director would have been commanding this speed. I t has nothing to do with
the way thr airplane was flown in the last few seconds, but it shows the
kind of precise guidance they were getting to that point. He may have been
doing an auto approach, in fact, which could expalin a lot as the
transition form autoflight to manual can be messy, particularly in wind.
Never flown a DC8, but with those old tab controls, it was probably a
million miles away from the fighters and Pitts' you flew!
You'd find the 757 more to your liking,. It flies like a light twin and the
ailerons are VERY responsive. In fact in that compilation video I posted
you can see one going around and rocking like crazy. That's a PIO.
Bertie
The approach I shot in the DC8 was into Fairbanks Alaska. Very windy
that day and I flew the approach manually....well, manually on a Collins
FD109 FD anyway. You're right about the difference in airplanes. I had
flown the bird up there from the left seat so was fairly familiar with
the control response, but of course that was at cruise mach. When I
slowed the damn thing down for the approach, the lead time to correct
changed accordingly and it was a guessing game each time I corrected.
I cheated a little and ruddered it rather than use bank that seemed hard
to control to me. Anyway, I got it down in one piece without bending it.
Had the Chief Pilot of the line in the right seat of course, but he had
already told me that unless I got it critical somehow it was all mine to
solve.
Great airplane the DC8. I'll tell you the truth though. I was damn glad
to feel those mains on the pavement. Those guys knew me pretty well and
I didn't want to embarrass myself in their big bad airplane :-))
About PIO; you should see the trouble in pitch a novice can get into in
a T38.
It can get so bad you have to let go and let it phugoid out . There's
absolutely no way a first timer could counter it. If it happens low
enough on approach it can spell REAL trouble.
Great airplane though. Makes me wish I could do it again :-)
--
Dudley Henriques