wrote in
:

On Mar 14, 11:58*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote
innews:b887a328-823a-4aa9-8af0-75e24eadf0f2@p25
g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:



On Mar 14, 11:37*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
TakeFlight wrote in
news:935d6394-8224-482e-9428-
:

Put me in the "not enough info" column.

Plane #2 could be in fact _in_ a stall (or spin), "descending
fast with 50% power" or _more_. *Think Delta Flight 191, for
example.

That was something else entirely. That was a microburst. The rules
pretty much go out the window with one of those.
not to say the laws of physics are suspended, but it's a scenario
that is so different from what we learn as pilots that drastic
retraining was * introduced right across the board after it.
Flight guidance systems were modified to account for the new
methods, so it's not really relevant.

Just to give you some idea of what I mean, I'll give you a
scenario. You'v
e
just aken off and yoou're climibing away at best rate. Suddenly,
your airspeed increases by a fairly large lump. 15-20 knots, say.
you increase your pitcha bit to absorb it and your speed bleeds
back a tad. Still plent
y
in hand, though. all the sudden the pitch you have is dragging
your speed back and it's beginning to decrease as the wind that
delivered that extra speed vanishes. You're still OK and back to
your orignal pitch and have a couple of knots more than you had at
the beginning. All the sudden, the bottom falls out of your
airplane. Your climb stops and then a second late
r *
you begin to sink, and fast. another second or two and your speed
washes off even further and now you're sinkng and your stall
warning is starting to squeak.

you gotta do something and right now. you still have some
altitude, say 40
0
feet. what do you do?

Bertie

Alt-Ctl-Del

No, wait, change my underwear.

Yoke forward, nose down and max power?

That's what the Delta guys did. And that 727 in New Orleans. A
different approach was needed and what they came up with was full
power. and in a jet that means firewall and overboost to your little
heart's contenet, and nose up as much as you can. The stall warnign
should be ringing off the wall ( we have stick shakers, but same
thing) and you keep this up til you fly out the other side of the
mess. It goes against everything we've learned but that's what they
tell us to do. There's generally some guidance form the flight
director as well. On some it's a set of yellow "antlers" that give
you best pitch and on others the pitch bar on the flight director
just gives you all the pitch info you need ( you just put the
airplane wings on a magenta bar, no brains required) note this is for
a sustained and powerful microburst and not for recovery form a tiny
bit of wind shear in a 20 knot wind.

Bertie

That's what I couldn't remember; I recalled the DFW incident (drove by
a couple of weeks after- messy) and remembered reading about the sim
duplication. Yep. Pull back would take some sim work I'd think to
ingrain something that seems so counter-intuitive.


Exactly.

So, pull back, firewall, recover, enjoy the shaking hands/knees,
change underwear. Gotcha. Oh, land, have beer.

Absolutely!

Best to stay well away form them anyway!
Oh yeah. I almost forgot, we have a computer that detects windshear and
we get an aural warning and an annunciator. All a legacy of that
accident..


Bertie