On 2008-03-15, Roger wrote:
Most mid size cars could be quite capable of getting 30 plus with fuel
efficient engines. There is no need to remove the large trucks. We
are talking "fleet average," not the mileage of every truck.

There are a nontrivial number of trucks, and 4-6 MPG is the rule rather than
the exception. It takes a lot of econoboxes to counterbalance that.

You use common sense. Those that can do so, could use the hybrids.
Those that really need the larger vans and SUVs could still use them
and the trucks could still remain. IOW we use what we need , not what
we think we'd like.

That's not the way the American system works. The only person entitled to
make a decision as to what vehicle they need to purchase is the buyer. Not
you, not me, not the government, and certainly not some enviro-wacko who
knows nothing about the buyer's needs.

Sure, I'd like a Hummer (I'm referring to the 4-wheel kind),

I wouldn't. I've had an H3 as a rental, and never got comfortable driving
it: you can hardly see out of the passenger side windows from the driver's
seat.

or a new SUV for hauling all the stuff around I usually have with me,

I drive a small SUV because I can only have one vehicle, and need the
capabilities it provides a nontrivial portion of the time. Yes, a Prius
would handle my most common mission, but if it's just more than me and a
minimal amount of stuff (and I do mean minimal: when I've had a Prius as a
rental, the storage area was barely big enough for two carryon-sized
suitcases and a briefcase), then I'm hosed.

but for the vast majority of trips I don't need anything larger than my
wife's Hybrid. Nor does every family with kids in sports need a super
long van. It's time these people learn about car pooling.

Soemone has to have the van to do the carpool in. Why should one person get
stuck with that?

that that's going to dramatically lower fleet safety, especially in light of
Why. They have found that the small car against the large may not
fare well, but the large SUVs against another large SUV fares even
worse. Today's cars, even the small ones are far safer than those of
say 30 or 40 years ago when I was driving a 5600# Pontiac Bonneville
convertible. Back then cars were BIG.

Physics. Yes, cars of the same size are safer today than they were 40 years
ago. A smaller car will stll always come out worse in a collision with a
bigger vehicle than a larger one.

A few years back I took a full size GMC SUV broadside at cruise speed.
Yes it totaled my Transam. BUT other than being punchier than two
6-packs on an empty stomach I didn't even get bruised. The driver of
the SUV ended up in the hospital. With education and attitude there
is no need for the hybrids to be unsafe.

Let me guess: you were wearing the seat belt, and the SUV driver wasn't?
That's not an indictment of the SUV, but of the idiot who wasn't wearing his
seat belt. (I'm a former paramedic. There are a few things I get rabid
about, and seat belts top the list.)

A hybrid SUV might be more fuel efficient than its conventional counterpart.
Then again, it might not be. I looked at the hybrid version of my SUV when I
was first considering buying it, but ruled it out for one simple reason: 95%
of my driving is at highway speed, where a hybrid provides no benefit. The
extra purchase cost, plus the battery replacement at 100K miles (and yes, I
do keep vehicles past that point), far outweighed any possible fuel savings
given my driving needs.

the massive numbers of large commercial trucks that would still be needed to
You don't have to get rid of the commercial trucks. The fleet average
can nicely be taken care of by the cars.

Sure, if you sentence everyone to drive an econobox.

You don't need to go to the little econoboxes.

Either you do that or else you add $6-8K to the price of every car and
significantly cut its cargo capacity by turning it into a hybrid.

It would also generate a booming market in hazmat remediation, as common
Pure BS.
There is so little mercury in a CFL you sweep 'em up, put in a plastic
bag and properly dispose. Air out the room if paranoid.

If that's the case, why is government raising the alarm? See, for example,
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=7431198 .

As for the electric car, let me once again use those two magic words:
"mission profile". I'll consider one when I can get one that will go 400
No one said use the electric car for long trips hauling heavy loads.

If that's the only car I have, I have no choice. I make those trips, so I
have to have a vehicle that will do the job.

Or are you suggesting that I be forced to buy two cars, one for the few
local trips I make and one for the missions the first won't handle?

The average trip made by cars is short and typically round trip to
work, or in to see the kids play what ever sport. Car pooling could
take care of a lot this.

The average person's average trip, in a city, maybe. Ask someone living in a
small rural town what their average trip is.

This kind of fallacious generalization is why government regulation of what
people buy is simply wrong.

However for those that need the extra room and load capacity they
could still have it. I reiterate, FLEET AVERAGE does not mean every
car and tuck has to get that mileage. It's expected that all of them
averaged together would get that. Big difference.

That does nothing for those of us who aren't average. Driving up the fleet
average will require that the vehicles that will handle my mission be
unavailable, or else emasculated to the point they're unsafe.

This is the typical "all or nothing" argument against better mileage
or conservation. When it comes to the cars on the road, most of us
don't need a big pickup truck, monster SUV or 5,000# luxury car.

I don't either. My small SUV does the job.

However, I REFUSE to try to tell someone else what they need or don't need.
I cannot make that judgment for them. They can only do that for themselves.
The alternative is central planning, comrade.

Of course the LEDs are far preferable over CFLs, but they are currently
very expensive. Give 'em a couple years and they just might be on par with
today's CFL, but far more efficient and almost indefinite life with very
little heat given off and no starter required.

And if they do that, I'll happily switch. (Assuming they don't flicker
annoyingly when fed 60 Hz AC.)

That's the real key to doing the environmentally correct thing: Make it
economically justifiable, too. I don't mean artificially raising the cost
through taxation or anything like that. (The same arguments that justify
doing that in other circumstances can be used to justify raising the cost of
fuel for your Debonair to $10 a gallon. How much does it burn an hour?) I
mean make it save real money.

The greatest impact on safety would be getting the public to quit
accepting a yearly highway death toll of between 40 and 50,000 as
acceptable.

No argument from me on this one.

Maybe the biggest at present would be to build a jamming device to prevent
cell phones being used while the car is in motion and education.

Got a 2-meter rig in your car, OM? I do, and have had ever since I owned a
car. (Well, sometimes it was just 440, but you get the idea.) Just because
some people can't talk and drive doesn't mean everyone can't.

Today there seems to be an element in society that fights any change
to improve things.

When the suggested improvement is a drastic change in the way we live, and
where we live, and how we live, you bet your ass you're going to get
resistance, at least here in our free society. You see, the government isn't
supposed to treat us like the Chinese government treats its people, but
that's exactly what the enviro-wackos are calling for.

Nothing comes without some kind of cost including "business as usual"
which probably has the highest long term cost of any option.

That has yet to be demonstrated to the satisfaction of a lot of Americans.

If you're so keen on saving the planet, why haven't you junked your Debonair
and bought something smaller?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (getting ready to order)