On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 17:27:31 -0700, "Billzz"
wrote:


"JJS" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,

wrote:

-stuff snipped-

That's very acceptable to China for the DL remains outside China and
it doesn't cost China a single penny to keep the DL out. You guys are
being manipulated by the DL and you didn't recognize it.


Really. I'm being manipulated? Then perhaps you can tell me what
my position is concerning the Dalai Lama?

Joe

I was just passing by, and have no horse in this race, but I do have an
interesting story. Years ago I was in the far east, and met a learned
person, (probably in an airport bar, so take everything I next say with a
dose of salt) and the subject got around to Tibet. He said that most people
do not know that Tibet was once a feudal serfdom, and had some practices
that were very close to slavery. The selection of the next Dalai Lama was
done by having the monks (lamas?) scour the countryside for the best and the
brightest amongst young males and then, with the agreement of the parents,
they would be taken back to Lhasa? and trained and examined, and the best
and the brightest would be the next Dalai Lama in waiting, and the others
were on standby. But the thing is that none of them went back. They were
essentially indentured servants. I don't remember everything, but he stated
that this is probably why there is no real revolution amongst the Tibetan
people, because they (maybe?) do not want the Dalai Lama system back. Of
course the Chinese government could be pounding them into the ground, but
with today's communication, and travelers, one thinks that one should hear
something.

As an aside, we have a friend who supports that brand of Buddhism, and so I
did meet with some saffron-robed Buddhist (priests?) who were from the Dalai
Lama's sect. They did a sand mandela (which is something to see) and sang
songs, and we saw slides of their monastery (which is now in India, and
looked very Spartan, indeed) and I thought that they were probably good
people, but they were definitely of a single culture - once in , never out.
Maybe it is the same as a monk in the Catholic church, but I don't know. I
know that my wife spent a hundred dollars for some blankets. Maybe someone
will be helped.

Anyway, I do not know if his story is true, or not, but it was interesting.
I don't care, one way or the other.


I guess by now you would have noticed that no one really cares about
the Tibetans unless they can be used to bash China.

Here's a report that isn't so flattering either.

Stop religious persecution
http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/

Every day, thousands and thousands of people around the world quietly
practice the prayer of Dorje Shugden.

This centuries-old practice involves making requests to the Wisdom
Deity Dorje Shugden to support our spiritual development - helping us
to develop pure inner qualities such as love, compassion, equanimity,
wisdom, and patience.

Our goal in making these prayers is to ask for the best conditions to
follow the Buddhist path to full enlightenment, so that we can help
all living beings find lasting inner peace and happiness.

Abandoned by the Dalai Lama
For reasons that have their roots in the arcane world of Tibetan
politics, some years ago the Dalai Lama of Tibet chose to abandon the
practice and outlaw it among the Tibetan community, claiming that this
Deity was 'evil' and that engaging in the practice caused harm to his
own lifespan and to Tibetan independence.

On the orders of the Dalai Lama, the ban was and continues to be
enforced by the Tibetan Government in Exile and all other Tibetan
Exile associations such as the Tibetan Youth Congress and the Tibetan
Women's Association:

" Monks and nuns are forbidden to do the practice and are
unconstitutionally expelled from their monasteries and nunneries if
they do not comply
" Thousands of Shugden practitioners among the Tibetan lay
people are being forced to abandon the practice or lose the support of
their government and face orchestrated public humiliation and
intimidation
" People who refuse to renounce the practice are losing their
jobs, their children are being expelled from schools, and their travel
papers, which require prior authorization from the Tibetan Government
in Exile, are not being endorsed
" Statues have been smashed, temples destroyed, books burned,
practitioner's houses attacked, and even death threats issued in an
orgy of persecution that resembles a medieval witch hunt

Persecution intensifies
This persecution has become progressively more virulent, and in
January 2008, the Dalai Lama issued a new proclamation requiring all
Tibetans to sign a declaration forsaking the practice forever and
promising not to associate in any way - spiritually, financially,
socially or materially - with anyone who does not sign.

Despite the atmosphere of fear and intimidation and the threat to
their own safety and that of their families, thousands of monks and
nuns decided that enough was enough and refused to sign.

They were summarily expelled from their monasteries and nunneries,
forbidden to associate with other Tibetans, even to eat with or shop
from them, and left to fend for themselves without any support.

Untouchables
Although the Tibetans are mere guests in India, the Dalai Lama is
repaying the kindness of the Indian people by violating their
constitution in creating a new group of untouchables. And these from
among his own people!

Having deprived Tibetans in exile of the right to become Indian
citizens and insisted that they all remain subject to his dictatorial
rule, he has effectively condemned those who refuse to compromise the
integrity of their spiritual practice to a double refugee status.
They are refugees from Tibet - stateless in India - and now they are
refugees from their own communities - ostracized and humiliated on the
fringes of Tibetan society.

Inexpressible pain and suffering
And why? Simply because they refuse to abandon a pure and harmless
spiritual practice they have received from their Spiritual Guides.
This tradition goes back centuries. Many of the great Masters of
Tibetan Buddhism received this practice from their Spiritual Guide and
passed it onto their own students - right down to the great Lama,
Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, who passed it to his disciple, the Dalai
Lama!

In abandoning the practice, the Dalai Lama has broken a commitment to
his Spiritual Guide - almost unthinkable in Buddhism among ordinary
practitioners, never mind from a spiritual leader!

It is almost impossible to explain the inner pain and suffering a
Buddhist would experience if they were forced to abandon a heart
practice given to them by their Spiritual Guide. And yet thousands and
thousands of Tibetans have been forced to do just this by the Dalai
Lama!

Stolen teachings
The Dalai Lama has even gone on record as saying his own Spiritual
Guide and his predecessors through the centuries were wrong!
What a preposterous claim!

Is this the example we are being asked to follow?

In a stunning and flagrant act of almost unbelievable hypocrisy, on
the one hand he condemns his own Spiritual Guides and works to destroy
the very heart of the pure tradition they have preserved through the
centuries, while on the other he struts the world's stage giving
teachings from that very tradition!

Because the pure Dharma he received from his Teacher Kyabje Trijang
Rinpoche is so powerful, everyone who hears those teachings naturally
admires the sentiments they express.

But do they know that he has stolen those teachings? Do they question
whether these noble sentiments are actually present in the mind of the
speaker?

Duplicity
But the hypocrisy and duplicity do not stop there.
Aware of the international public horror at the recent atrocities,
which clearly stem from the single handed actions of the Dalai Lama,
the Tibetan Prime Minister and other Officials of the Tibetan
Government in Exile have started a campaign to distance the Dalai Lama
from these actions and their resulting inhumane victimization of a
section of the Tibetan community.

Threat to religious freedom worldwide
Like a virulent cancer, this discrimination has spread from the
Tibetan community to the world at large.

Because the Dalai Lama generally enjoys uncritical celebrity status in
almost every country, people simply accept what he says without
question

As a result, various western Buddhist centres with a connection to the
Dalai Lama are now signing declarations promising not to engage in the
Shugden practice or to allow into their centre anyone who does. They
are also insulting those practitioners and centres in the west who do
engage in this practice.

Such is the spell cast by the Dalai Lama that these people have
suspended their critical faculties to embrace what is nothing more
than a piece of medieval superstition.
Incredibly, Shugden practitioners in the West are now wrongly being
condemned as non-Buddhists!

Why We Are Protesting
Over the years Shugden practitioners in both the East and the West
have sent many letters and petitions to the Dalai Lama requesting him
to completely stop these actions of discrimination, but, giving
invalid reasons, he has refused to accept our requests.

We are left with no option but to protest publicly in the hope of
drawing the world's attention to this intolerable situation.
In doing so we hope that some people at least will see the hypocrisy
in the Dalai Lama parading as a champion of religious freedom while
conducting religious persecution of his own, and join with us in
demanding that this iniquitous discrimination that is causing so much
pain and suffering stop immediately.

All we ask is to be able to say our prayers and follow the advice of
our Spiritual Guides without fear of persecution, ostracism, and
abuse.

Why is it so hard for a Buddhist leader to agree to this?