Jim Logajan wrote in
:

Rich Ahrens wrote:
on 9/7/2008 5:19 PM Jim Logajan said the following:
If there was no presumption in Jay M's question then it wasn't the
dichotomy you claimed it was. You need to make up your mind.

No, you need to try to keep up. The most common classification of
logical fallacies groups them into fallacies of relevance, of
ambiguity, and of presumption. False dichotomies fall into the group
fallacies of presumption. The presumption is that there are no
options other than the two offered. I previously explained why his
question fit this definition.

I'm impressed by your attempts at logic. But I now suspect both of us
are not exactly young, so maybe the attempts at patronization are best
left out. It's been over 30 years since I took logic and philosophy
classes in college and later managed to convince them to award me a
BSc in physics. Later I managed to arrange my life to be able to work
from the comfort of my home out in the country. All of which I like to
think proves I'm not a complete idiot. So I'm not persuaded by your
arguments at all because I know from whence they come.

Excellent: your opinion on Jay Honeck's views is clear. Now if you
can make (or point to a past posting) of a clear opinion of
Bertie's postings it will be clear whether your posts are in fact
a stealth defense of him or merely an incidental byproduct of
objective observations.
I have no obligation to do so. It is your assertion, Jay's, or
both. The burden of proof is on you.

Huh? Are you saying the burden of proof of your opinions is on me?
Sorry, I don't follow that.

Do try harder to keep up. You and Jay have both asserted or at least
strongly presumed that I am defending Bertie. I have no obligation to
prove I am not doing so. It's your burden to prove that I am. I need
not play your game or answer your questions.

I'm not playing a game. I wasn't even a target of your attack. I'm a
third party here. I simply don't see the point of attacking Jay H, who
has never cross-posted or gotten into deep threaded tit-for-tat
attacks, whereas others have done just that to the detriment of the
group.

Look, I'm not asking for any obligations. I'm trying to figure out
what your opinion is of the person who posts using the "Bertie the
Bunyip" handle. You aren't shy about telling the world your opinion
of Jay Honeck's affect on this newsgroup. I'm not sure why you
object to telling the world your opinion of "Bertie's" affect on
this newsgroup.

I simply choose not to. My reasons are my own.

Too bad you couldn't have used that opaque line of "reasoning" when
you were deciding whether to post your attack on Jay H.

You'll undoubtedly draw your own conclusions.

I can't conclude anything - other than you dislike Jay H.

No. Jay M asserted that Jay H was "being ruthlessly driven away." I
simply contradicted him with an equally bald assertion.

Are you now claiming no one has been driven away, or are you
quibbling over whether there was ruthless intent involved?

No one has been driven away. Some have chosen to leave, but that's
their choice.

I see. In much the same manner that a person who is attacked by a
swarm of mosquitos is simply making a choice to vacate the area - they
aren't being driven away. Dissembling over a colloquialism.

The fact that Jay and Dudley keep coming back here to
sing the praises of other forums makes it clear they are still free
to post or lurk and in fact do so.

And you are free to complain (and complain (and complain)) about it -
both here - and on PoA if you wanted to, I bet.

And I say this as one who looked in on PoA and AOPA but decided they
weren't for me.

So bloody what? PoA has terms of use. So does your Usenet provider.
You can be bounced from your Usenet provider if you cross the line
too, you know.

So bloody what, in your own words. I choose providers who are far
less restrictive than Jay would like all to be. If he could netkopp
me successfully, I have no doubt he would.

Jay H. had been reading and posting to this group for years and never
exhibited any sign of "net kopping". Ironically his r.a.p "Rogues
Gallery" appears to have been an attempt to "flesh out" and humanize a
community here.


No, it wasn't.


Bertie