On Jun 24, 10:45*am, Del C wrote:
I knew that agreeing with Bill Daniels was too good to last!

Given a vaguely competent pilot, the most likely cause of a wing drop is a
gust, especially if there is a cross-wind component. That is what happened
in the series of photos that show a K13 standing on it's starboard
wingtip. I put a link into this in an earlier posting. Please note that
full opposite aileron and rudder is being applied throughout this
incident!

On the subject of not accidentally pulling the release knob as a result of
holding it, you need to arrange the cockpit so you are not holding the
release at full stretch.

Some glass single seaters are very good at hiding the release knob almost
out of reach somewhere below your crutch and behind the stick. On my own
glider I have extended the cable so it is easier to reach the knob (with
the approval of a BGA Inspector I hasten to add).

The last fatal cartwheel accident in the UK involved an ASW20L glider. If
you read the aaib report, they concluded that once the stick was hard over
to the left, which it would have been as it was the right wing that
dropped, it would have been almost impossible to get to the release knob
if you weren't holding it already!

Derek Copeland

At 15:29 24 June 2009, bildan wrote:

On Jun 23, 5:42=A0pm, Andy *wrote:
On Jun 23, 4:18=A0pm, ucsdcpc *wrote:

have a look at the simulation videos on the BGA website

http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/saf...nch-safety.htm

you don't have a lot of time to find the release knob if a wing
drops

Maybe not, but it's hard to believe the wing drop simulations are
representative. =A0What reasonably trained pilots would stuff the wing
into the ground and then continue to hold full aileron into the low
wing? =A0It would be interesting to see the same scenario simulated
with
an external upset causing the wing drop and full recovery aileron
being applied at and after wing tip contact. =A0Throw in various
amounts
of drag on the low wing tip to simulate short grass, long grass, etc
and then introduce pilot release before, at, and after wing tip
contact, and I'd start to believe it was a useful training aid.

Andy

It's realistic in the sense that the most likely way a wing would go
down is if the pilot does, in fact, "stuff it down". *Unfortunately,
you just have to watch a few takeoffs to see it happen. *One of my
frustrations is pilots who seem to have no idea where their ailerons
are until a wingtip hits the ground.

If the pilot consciously centers the ailerons as part of the pre-
takeoff checks and lets the wing runner balance the glider, the glider
will just stay balanced on its own for several seconds after the wing
runner lets go *- long enough to get aileron control on either aero
tow or winch. *That's good practice with any launch method.

What I see in that K-13 sequence is the parachute disappearing off the
left side of the frame after it was released. It gives the appearance
the glider was staged at least 30 degrees off the line of sight to the
winch. I also don't see any aileron or rudder applied in the first
frame with the wing on the ground indicating the pilot was WAAY behind
the glider.

Blaming this 100% on a gust seems a reach.