On Aug 29, 5:30*pm, John Allen wrote:
I do not hold any FAA ratings and I am considering instruction to
obtain a Private Pilot Glider certification, so gliders will be my
introduction to aviation. I live in the Los Angeles area and have a
few concerns:

1. Safety -

* * a) After reviewing the NTSA accident database, it seems that most
of the fatal accidents are related to stalls during a launch abort
(the reports don't say stall explicitly) and medical distress. So it
seems that pilots attempt to turn back for a landing with insufficient
air speed, rather than land forward.

* * b) The congested airspace of the L.A. area means that mid-air
collisions are a reality, but I don't read about radio or transponder
usage in gliders (at least equipment descriptions on club/instructor
websites). See and avoidance of gliders by high velocity aircraft
pilots doesn't seem to be a realistic expectation.

2. Instruction - I am wondering if starting by taking 5 days of
intensive training at an out-of-state glider school followed by bi-
weekly club instruction at a local club is a good approach to just bi-
weekly instruction.

3. Local Glider Ports - Unfortunately, an airfield in the Los Angeles
area (Hemet-Ryan) is due to terminate glider usage in October. That
leaves Lake Elsinore as the closest glider port. But the loss will be
in instruction alternatives, since all glider clubs and schools at
Hemet-Ryan will need to re-organize and find a new facilty.

4. Flexibility of Instruction - A normal course of instruction is a
given, however I may want to instruction in a specific area or event
in addition to the usual course, such as stall recovery from an under-
banked, over-ruddered slow speed turn, which may not be covered by the
instructor.

5. Fun - With all of the safety instruction, study material,
situational awareness, airspace scanning, etc., there must be some
enjoyment of the sport and I believe there is, otherwise I would not
give it any consideration.

Any feedback will be appreciated.

John,

I think most Glider Pilots in the LA area are doing their training
outside of LA for the reasons you mentioned.

One advantage of taking flight training in that area however is that
you become accustomed to the radio
and airspace issues very early on.

Lake Elsinore Soaring Club has a lot of members from the southern LA
area.
It is a good training club as it has two tow planes, 3 2-33's, a
1-26, a 1-34 and a Pilatus B4.
You use Thermal, Ridge Lift and Convergence and on some occasions some
down stream Wave from the Palomar Mtns and others.
They also have quite a big field that provides ample flat terrain for
emergency landings.
Currently there are 3 instructors.

You also learn IFR flight on takeoff behind the towplane, since it has
a dirt runway. (IFR= I Follow Rope)

Hemet Soaring clubs unfortunately for all of us, seem to be loosing
their facility at the end of September.

Since there is a limit as to how many members Lake Elsinore can
support, and the extraneous members from the Hemet clubs
looking for a new home, it will be first come first served on that
facility.

Any well trained glider pilot should not have a problem with stalls on
aborted launches as we are trained how to deal
with that very thing before going solo.

The instructor simulates a rope break by releasing at 300' AGL and
seeing how the student reacts.
If he does not immediately shove the nose down to maintain airpseed
and do a well banked turn back to the runway then he is not ready
for solo and needs more instruction and practice.

In fact glider pilots freqently spend a great deal of time flying near
the stall and soon develop instinctive relexes to the glider starting
to stall or spin
and preventing it.

I do recommend a few sessions with spin training at an aerobatic
school as glider training in the US does not require that, but it
could save your life someday
having actually done a few proper spin recoveries. There is no
substitute for actual experience

In Canada where I was first trained we required actual spins.....after
the intial apprehension it was actually fun and a huge confidence
builder.

Gliders in the LA area are constrained to their allowed airpace, but
for numerous takeoff/landings that students will be doing there is
enough freedom to do that and stay clear of other traffic. Gliders do
have the right of way but being right does not gaurantee your safety.
Just look at the crazy drivers on the road.....some of them are pilots
as well.

Intesive training is good but flying every other weekend will slow
your progress tremendously. I know some people that train every other
weekend and it has taken them 2 years and they still don't have their
Private ticket yet.

If you commit to every weekend for 4 months you could be a licensed
pilot in 6.

Training in every conceivable attitude is common and there for the
asking. However its the instructors decision if fully develops spins
or other aerobatics are taught.

Fun is ensured by the student as you set your own pace for training.

Some days you just need to thermal or ridge soar and leave the
regimented stuff for another day.
Most instructors have no problem with this as it is really just
another way for them to see where they can help you improve.

Once you are to that stage and feeling confident, you are probably
ready to solo. Once soloed you will likely spend a lot more time on
the
fun stuff with perhaps a few tense moments now and then as your
judgement improves and your flying becomes more relaxed and fluid.

The first time you soar with a hawk will be cool, or when you hook
your first thermal alone without help and ride it up to the top.

Ray