On Sep 17, 8:09*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:

Sorry gents, but this is getting needlessly heated and unfairly insulting..
I've seen postings over the years from almost every one of the participants
of this thread and Chris Gattman has been around a while and is no flake.
None of you are flakes (well, mostly. ;-)) Could you gentlemen please try
to stay civil? I see no good reason to lob these insults - particularly
since it has already been made clear that several sources beyond Gattman
have indicated that some FAA personnel (and others) are operating under
conflicting or at least different definitions.

Thank you sincerely, Jim. I'm not going to say that crossing the
taxiway is a runway incursion again until I hear it from the FAA
directly and can give you the name and direct quote. That's fair.

It's up to you guys whether you want to accept that an FSDO speaker
and tower reported the incidents I described as runway incursions. Out
here, though, every instructor, pilot and tower operator I've been
able to talk to about it considers it a runway incursion. I'm
repeating what several sources have taught me, and, they're all good
people. Maybe we're all wrong. In practice, our students do not cross
the line without clearance from tower. If anybody here finds fault
with -that-, please explain why.

The ONLY reason I posted it here after not posting so long is to share
to other pilots so that perhaps they will be more careful at
unfamiliar airports, and so that they don't get reported to the FAA,
because I saw it happen on August 7 and 8 at Troutdale. If anybody
truly "fears for the fact that there are CFI's out there spreading
this level of misinformation," then, take it up with the FAA because
they licensed me. Be sure to tell them that I am trying to get people
to stay off of taxiways without clearance, and make sure you give them
my name. If I'm indeed incorrect about what a runway incursion is, I
can tell them exactly why their documentation is misleading.
Otherwise, please keep that snarky nonsense to yourself because it
doesn't contribute to the discussion.

As for the civility, I am truly sorry if I have helped diminish it.
That is the opposite of my intent.

-Chris