"robert arndt" wrote in message
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"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
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"robert arndt" wrote in message
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"Gord Beaman" ) wrote in message
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(robert arndt) wrote:


No, don't talk about US morality in WW2. We didn't even "give" the
British anything under "give us the tools we'll do the job". The US
Govt confiscated all British assets in the US and even sent a warship
to South Africa to collect British gold in payment for the old Liberty
ships.

This is utter ********.

Its true that prior to lend lease the neutrality act required all
purchases to be paid for in gold or US dollars but there
was no 'confiscation' of assets

Roosevelt stripped Britain of all her assets in the US after two years
of war. The British-owned Viscose Company worth 125 mil pounds was
liquidated for 87 mil pounds to pay for war debt while Britain's 1,924
mil pound investments in Canada were sold off to further pay off war
debt.

Roosevelt didnt make those decisions, Churchill did and
it was the isolationist US Congress that forced that
by passing the neutrality acts.


To make sure Roosevelt got the money he dispatched the cruiser
"Loisville" to the South African naval base Simonstown to take
Britain's last gold assets- 42 mil pounds worth.

As usual you have this completely WRONG. The USS Louisville
was sent to Simonstown in 1940 at the request of the BRITISH government
to transport $148 million dollars of gold to the USA where
it was placed on deposit to be used by the British purchasing
commission. The reason for using a US cruiser was to ensure
it wouldnt be sunk by German U-Boats

This was not unique to the USA , HMS Edinburgh was sunk while
carrying large quantities of Soviet gold to pay for its purchase
from Britain and the USA


Not content with stripping Britain of its assets and gold, for 50 old
destroyers, Roosevelt made Britain transfer all her scientific and
technological secrets to the US. He also demanded leases on the
islands of Newfoundland, Jamaica,Trinidad, and Bermuda for the setting
up of US military and naval bases.

You are conflating several quite separate issues and getting ALL
wrong. The gold had been spent BEFORE the 40 destroyers
ever became an issue.

The deal that saw the transfer of radar technlogy to the USA in
1940 was the result of a policy decision by the BRITISH
government who sent the Tizard mission to Washington
specifically to bartter know how for production. Both
nations won on this one.

The ships for bases deal was a way to
give the RN 40 ships for which it could not pay.


The Liberty ships were new build ships delivered AFTER
lend lease and were NOT paid for in Gold

You are correct, it was for the 50 old destroyers instead. My mistake.

They didnt pay gold for the destroyers either. The purchases
made with that money were largely aircraft and associated
weapons. It was that money that got the initial orders
placed for the P-51 for example.


The 'old' ships supplied were the 40 Town class destroyers
and they werent paid for in gold either , they were part of the
ships for bases deal.

Refer to above.

British companies in the US taken and we even demanded that
Britain share all of its secrets- radar, jet aircraft technology,
computer tech, and its A-bomb project "Tube Alloys" which Britain in
desperation agreed to.

More rubbish

Refer to above.

The decision to pass the cavity magnetron data to the USA
was taken in 1940 because it was realised that Britain didnt have
the spare manufacturing or research capacity to put it into
production. The Tizard mission benefitted both nations, the
USA got a leg up in research and the UK got centimetric radar
in quantity before it could have otherwise done.

As for jet engine technology that was shared equally with
the Amricans and Soviets, or had you forgotten that the
Mig-15 flew with a british designed engine ?

The US got it first by demand. The Soviets bought theirs.

No sir, the USSR and USA both got engine's as allied
nations, but the USA built its copies of the Nene engine
under license as the J-42. The Taylor Turbine Corporation
paid Rolls Royce a commercial license fee for the copies
and PURCHASED 6 engines, the Soviets purchased ONE
engine and then just ripped off the design. Note that Pratt
and Whitney later purchased that license and in collaboration
with Rolls Royce further developed the engine. Once again
a partnership not a ripoff.


The computer tech was NOT shared. Colossus remained
a top secret until

As for tube alloys once again it was recognised in britain that
we simply didnt have the resources to develop an atomic
weapon in time to affect the war. The recommendations
of the Maud committee set up in Britain to advise the government
was that the US and British programs should be pooled.

Britain again had no choice but to give in, contributing 44 of their
scientists to the Manhatten Project.

It was a British initiative, getting the US to agree to our idea
was scarcely giving in. You seem to have a real problem with
the notion of alliance, as did the Nazis of course.



Quote
8. Conclusions and Recommendations
(i) The committee considers that the scheme for a uranium bomb is
practicable and likely to lead to decisive results in the war.

(ii) It recommends that this work be continued on the highest priority
and
on the increasing scale necessary to obtain the weapon in the shortest
possible time.

(iii) That the present collaboration with America should be continued
and
extended especially in the region of experimental work.

/Quote

What did they get for helping with the US
Manhatten Project- nothing. Britain had to build their own bomb years
later.

They got a LOT of knowledge from the British phyicists who returned
from Los Alamos and Oak Ridge.

We should have gave them the bomb considering that the US could not
have had a D-Day invasion without launching it from that little
island. And no D-Day, no captured German technolgy, material or
documentation- that put the US far ahead of anyone else postwar.
Russia would have taken the continent and got it instead.

The payback for D-Day was ending the war. 2000 V-1's and
V-2's fell on London, only the invasion stopped them. You
insist on seeing an adversarial relationship were there
was an alliance.



So get off your high horse and address the America of the '40s without
the rose colored glasses on.
We were racist, anti-semetic, and greedy. But patriotism covers a
multitude of sins, right?


The US did not however murder 95% of the Japanese in North America

There are once more thriving Japanese communities in California.
How many jews live in Cracow, Warsaw or Berlin in comparison to
the communities of 1933 ?

The father of my best friend was briefly interned by the British
authorities in 1939. This was disgraceful however he would be the
first to point out that only one other member of his family
survived the war, they had the misfortune to be jewish and
even his father, an officer in the German Army in WW1 and
a winner of the Iron Cross was sent to the gas chambers.

No the US was not perfect and neither were Britain or Canada
but they were not genocidal maniacs either.

That doesn't excuse the illegality nor immorality of Allied actions
during the war.

It does however serve to put them in perspective.

Illegal imprisonment is a crime but murder is a more serious one.

Keith




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