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RTO Trainer wrote:
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
"Colin Campbell" (remove
underscore)
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:07:29 -0800, "Tarver
Engineering"
wrote:


'Arrest' is a specific legal status. A person
detained by
military authorities is _not_ under arrest.

Tell that to the boys at gitmo.

Why? My teams captured some of them and we processed
some
of them.
First, they are not "boys", they are men. Second, at
least
in the case of those members of Al Qaeda and of the
Taliban
that we caught, they were armed, were capable of planning
and or leading groups of persons in either acts of terror
or
of engaging in various forms of "hostile acts" including
acts of terror and had been engaging in "hostile acts"
against both the United Front (Northern or Eastern
Alliance)
and the US Army. Dangerous men, who are detained as
"illegal combatants" as defined in The Laws of Land
Warfare
(FM 27-10).
Which states as follows;
81. Individuals Not of Armed Forces Who Commit Hostile
Acts
Persons who, without having complied with the conditions
pre-scribed
by the laws of war for recognition as belligerents (see
GPW,
art. 4; par. 61 herein), commit hostile acts about or
behind
the lines
of the enemy are not to be treated as prisoners of war
and
may be
tried and sentenced to execution or imprisonment. Such
acts
include,
but are not limited to, sabotage, destruction of
communications facili-ties,
intentional misleading of troops by guides, liberation of
prisoners
of war, and other acts not falling within Articles 104
and
106 of the
Uniform Code of Military Justice and Article 29 of the
Hague
Regulations.
82. Penalties for the Foregoing
Persons in the foregoing categories who have attempted,
com-mitted,
or conspired to commit hostile or belligerent acts are
subject
to the extreme penalty of death because of the danger
inherent in their
conduct. Lesser penalties may, however, be imposed.



The people at Gitmo are 'civilian detainee' as per the
Laws and
Customs of War.

So in your opinion, the boys at gitmo are not under
arrest?

Its a matter of established law. They are not under
arrest.

POWs wouldn't be under arrest either. Simply detained
under a
different status.

RTO Trainer is absolutely correct. Iraqi Soldiers and
guerrillas who fall under the following definition are
considered Prisoners of War.
61. Prisoners of War Defined
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present
Convention,
are
persons belonging to one of the following categories, who
have
fallen into the power of the enemy:
(1)Members of the armed forces of a Party to the
conflict,
as well as members of militias or volunteer corps form-
ing
part of such armed forces.
(2)Members of other militias and members of other
volun-teer
corps, including those of organized resistance
move-ments,
belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating
in or outside their own territory, even if this territory
is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer
corps,
including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the
following conditions:
(a)that of being commanded by a person responsible for
his subordinates;
(b)that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable
at
a distance;
(c)that of carrying arms openly;
(d)that of conducting their operations in accordance with
the laws and customs of war.

Note that the Al Qaeda fall under the category of
Individuals Not of Armed Forces Who Commit Hostile Acts,
because they are not Afghani (therefore not a party to
the
conflict as defined under the Geneva Accords). Do not
have
a fixed distinctive sign or uniform. Do not conduct
their
operations (see 9-11-2001 attacks, sabotage of USS Cole
and
US Embassy bombings) in accordance with the laws and
customs
of war as defined in the Geneva Accords.


How do you know that the individuals accused of being Al
Queda or at
least, accused of being part of terrorist attacks on
Americans, were
indeed the people they thought they were?

In the case of those captured by my units, they were quite
proud of the fact that they were Al Qaeda (BTW, only those
suspected of being ranking members or persons having
specific knowledge of terrorist activities or intent were
sent to MCS Guantanamo Bay). Other detainees were turned
over to the interim government of Afghanistan (once it was
formed) by US Forces for disposition by the Afghan
government.

Additionally, at least some people detained at Gitmo were
NOT captured
during fighting of any kind, but along smuggler's routes
that were
being used by Al Queda forces (along with smugglers and,
according to
the Kuwaiti government, a few Kuwaiti nationals trying to
escape the
Afghan war and return home from visiting relatives).

Do you know this for a fact? Under what circumstances were
they captured and detained? Be very careful in your
answer, my teams were those in Pakhtia province and there
are a fair number that were captured and detained by forces
working with them or by members of the teams. Including
several alleged "smugglers" whose fortifications we breached
and captured along with documents and weapons. Others were
captured subsequent to Operation Anaconda by members of US
forces who also claimed to be "smugglers". Smugglers, armed
with 82mm mortars, RPGs and other weapons who had been
engaged in hostile activity against these US forces.

You're aware that as many as 250 detainees have been
released or are
being processed out in the next month or two after a year
or more of
detention because the US finally decided that they had
nothing to do
with Taliban or Al Queda but were actually turned in by
rival
factions in Afghanistan in order to collect bounty, right?

I would say that it is more likely that they are being
released because after extensive debriefings they were found
not to be leaders or to be as important as they claimed to
have been. Are you aware of the screening process under
which detainees were sent to MCS Guantanamo Bay?

While it is possible that some of those sent there may have
been turned in by various warlords from rival factions, I
rather doubt the majority were.

Snark
OEF, Pakhtia Province Nov. 2001-Apr. 2002

Additionally, there are other clauses in the Geneva
Accords IV that
MAY apply to any and all detainees. Certainly, the clause
that states
that if there is any question as to how a detainee is to
be treated,
they are accorded POW status until a tribunal decides
otherwise. This
was NOT done in the case of several hundred detainees, who
were
handed over to American armed forces for bounty, without
any proof
that they were who the bounty hunters said they were.

Again, are you aware of the screening process for detainees
to be shipped to Guantanamo Bay?

Snark