On Apr 24, 11:11*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 4/23/2010 6:10 PM, noel.wade wrote:





On Apr 23, 5:47 pm, Greg *wrote:

That is a difference of only 30' of altitude each mile.

Greg -

Yes, it does seem like a paltry difference in altitude-per-mile.

But when you look at it in terms of competition flying, it equates to
a good 5 - 7 knots faster during inter-thermal cruising, for the same
sink-rate.

If you figure that 70% of a task is spent in cruise, that's a nice
advantage! *Flying 85 knots versus 80 knots yields a 6% speed
difference in cruise. *If you assume a similar climb rate (I know,
they may not be similar) and you assume that you spend 70% of your
flight in cruise, then the total performance advantage is 4%. *But the
handicap difference between the DG-300 (0.95) and the LS-3 (0.937) is
only 1.4%

I know that the pilot matters more than the ship. *I come from the
world of auto-racing and have experience in competition where bad
people think that fancy equipment will solve all of their
deficiencies. *That's not the issue here... *The issue for me is
whether its worth it to get the good ship *now* and have it for
several years, versus "practicing" with the DG-300 for a few years and
then moving over once I am "close" to winning...

What contest class do you want to fly it in? Sports class: I suspect the
handicaps are closer to correct than you would think from your
calculations. 15 M: the newer gliders like the ASW 27 are much better
than the LS3. Standard class: you can't fly the LS3 in Standard.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)

- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarmhttp://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Expanding on Eric's point for a minute. If you're looking to fly in
Sports Class primarily, then the observations on wingloading and
ballast you made earlier are irrelevant - Sports Class (at least here
in the US) is flown dry. So, the handicaps as established will be
close enough to "correct" that it's a toss-up as to which is more
competive. If that's the case, then I think there might be a slight
nod toward an LS3 in very good condition. Flaps are nice, especially
if you routinely fly in an area where you need to go fast (ridge or
strong conditions) or land in small spaces. I fly at a field that
has at least a half-dozen LS3s based there, and it's fun to watch the
good guys come in over the trees and get stopped in very short order
(it's no ASW20 mind you, but it's still pretty good at getting
down).

Now, if you're thinking that you'll also attend the local Regional in
the respective FAI class from time to time, then I firmly believe the
nod goes to the DG. Especially if you fly in the East and/or in a no-
water regionals, the DG300 is "pretty close" to current ships. Not
quite there of course, but not so far from the D2, LS8, or ASW28 that
you'll always be left in the dust. There's a well-flown DG 300
campaigning in Standard Class here on the East Coast, and he routinely
finishes in the top half or better of races.

The LS3 IMO is a wonderful ship, but it seems to be relatively less
competitive within 15M. The ASW20, LS6, and of course current
generation ships all have a significant advantage over the LS3 at the
higher end. I say "seems", because there are folks who have shown
that a well-prepared LS3 is pretty much as good as an ASW20 (google
this group for some threads on that topic, especially relating to wing
profiling). I've only got two flights in an LS3, but it handles like
a dream and is just so pleasant to fly. Then again, maybe I'm biased,
having owned an LS4 and now an LS8.

Erik Mann
LS8-18 (P3)